Table saw alternatives in the future

[Mr__Bill]

What educational system? Many woodshop industrial arts courses have been dropped from the school system. Education only goes so far. There are those with years of experience, using equipment every day in their jobs that still stick their fingers in a sawblade. It's the lapse of concentration, or improper usage that outweighs the safety devices (or lack of).
.

C-man, I seem to not have been clear enough. If you teach a child how to learn more of what he or she needs to know and instill a desire to do so then when the knowledge is needed they will go and find it. We need to teach that knowledge is power and to stop glorifying ignorance and stupidity.

Schools can't teach everything to everyone but when you teach how to pass a test and not how to gather the knowledge and skills to do what you want to do then the schools are failing to prepare the student for the world. For many, learning how to learn, how to problem solve and to think critically is difficult, it's just the opposite of what TV is teaching them. Schools need a varied curriculum to reach the most students. Some will learn this from math and the sciences others from hands on applications in what was called industrial arts classes and the fine arts. No one learns the same but all need to learn how to learn, how to think critically and to know when we don't know and to find out.

To keep this on topic, I think that insurance companies will require that the homeowner, take a class in how to operate a tool before the insurance co will insure you using it. No class and you hurt yourself, no insurance coverage. No safety devices in place, no insurance.

Bill
and yes, I did take all the IA classes I could in school, they served me well; but then so did the math, science and literature.

[Stytooner]

Something else you see in some presses is a two switch system. You can't cycle the machine without hitting both switches. If the material was feed like a planner might do, then this might be an idea. You don't have to stand there and hold them after start, but to start it takes two. This would allow you to make repeat cuts in more than one board.

One thing I like that SS has is a system self check on startup. That is a cheap and easy feature for any saw to have. I remember some guys with the BT's that could not shut off the machine because the switch went bad. Such a system might alert you before that happens.

I like the mention of the self diagnostic computer chip that logs everything like an automobile does.
It would tell you when your brushes were wearing or not as efficient anymore. Possibly detect a bad wobble blade on start up and shut down. Even go so far as to alert an operator of a possible dull blade. I mean if we are trying to protect the human condition, lets take us out of it.

Okay. Some of this may be going too far, but it is fully foreseeable I think for future material slicers.

[cabinetman]

What I think we need is to revamp our educational system so that we turn out HS graduates that understand the need for and the desire to get additional education on how to use the things they buy. To use them safely and to get full use of what they pay for.

What educational system? Many woodshop industrial arts courses have been dropped from the school system. Education only goes so far. There are those with years of experience, using equipment every day in their jobs that still stick their fingers in a sawblade. It's the lapse of concentration, or improper usage that outweighs the safety devices (or lack of).
.

[Mr__Bill]

The problem is, as long as there is a profit to be made selling unsafe machinery it will continue to be manufactured and sold to those who have very little money to invest or are too cheap to buy safety. Ryobi admitted that people don't' buy safe and that was one of the reasons it decided in 2002 to not include the saw stop technology in their saws after they had originally considered it viable.

What I think we need is to revamp our educational system so that we turn out HS graduates that understand the need for and the desire to get additional education on how to use the things they buy. To use them safely and to get full use of what they pay for.

As to the original question. I think that basic safety devices have to be made integral to the machine and not an afterthought, intuitive in use and functional. There will always be some danger, education and training will mitigate that but there will be accidents. Perhaps the RobotWoodworker ® will be the solution. Computerize the plans and let it do the dangerous stuff. Then sue the table saw manufacture when your RobotWoodworker ® cuts off a finger.

Bill
My RobotWoodworker ® would be up and working if I could just find a brain for it, oh here's one belonged to Abby Normal. I'll use it!

[Stytooner]

They have those now.

[Uncle Cracker]

how long before the rotating blade is replaced by a moving CNC controlled laser beam, like the one that almost cut James Bond in half in Goldfinger?

Nooooo, Mr. Bond... I expect you to die!

[LCHIEN]

how long before the rotating blade is replaced by a moving CNC controlled laser beam, like the one that almost cut James Bond in half in Goldfinger?

[gsmittle]

All the safety features in the world are useless until the one between your ears is functioning properly.

You know what they say: If you make something idiot-proof, they'll make a better idiot.

I would imagine that if blade guard sensors, etc. were in place with an override switch, there would also be a little black box (much like in my Titan) that records the positions of guards, strain on the motor, whether the override was in use, etc. This could help determine operator error vs defective machinery, much like my Titan's black box records speed, brake force applied, gear, etc. on a 60-second loop.

g.

[tommyt654]

All the safety features in the world are useless until the one between your ears is functioning properly.

[cgallery]

Regardless of other safety features, I'd like a saw that doesn't weigh a ton.

Inca made some cabinet saws that had cast aluminum tops and an induction motor. I think they only weighed about 150#.

My dream saw would be a Ryobi BT3K modified to take rails similar to the Inca rails (which are similar to the BT3K rails, but it is easier to make extension tables). I'd also like a 27" front to back top instead of the 22".

If someone could make a saw like that, I'd pay $1000 to $1200. If you could beef up the motor w/o adding too much to the weight, and add flesh detection, I'd pony up $2000 to $2500.

[Stytooner]

Computerized laser cutting. You would clamp the board down and cut it without any need to be near it or have hands on it.
You would bring it home on back of your hover truck too.

I already do that with my CNC router in my small shop. Now the hover truck sounds very interesting. That would help prevent vehicles driven by other type Darwin award winners from having to be rescued for driving through a flooded road.

You may have hit the nail on the head though for what the future of material cutting has in store. Hobby cnc has become quite affordable lately. As more and more open source software comes about, the more shops you will see these in.

[Stytooner]

I don't disagree with that at all. Plenty of degreed idiots around.

The best panel saw I have used was a German made one. Used it to break down a couple truck loads of mdf. It was very precise with laser lines. Very clean cuts and dc. It even had a riving knife behind to keep the sheet goods from pinching when cutting horizontally. I do not recall the brand name however. It was likely priced over $5000 back then.

The design of today's saws is really not that dangerous to an experienced user. However, even with those guys, accidents still happen. Making saws less obvious to injury is where I see it heading. Just not sure what brilliant idea or format will get us started.

Saws that engage from under the table after the start button has been pushed is another idea that has also been in use for some time. We used one called a Whirlwind as a cutoff saw in one of the Furniture plants I worked at.
If you think speed with this type things is an issue, It was incredibly fast. A bit dangerous because of it. Still workable technology that would be better than an open blade.

[Daryl]

Computerized laser cutting. You would clamp the board down and cut it without any need to be near it or have hands on it.
You would bring it home on back of your hover truck too.

[cabinetman]

I think that, no matter how many safeguards are built in to any process, there will always be those idiots who are determined to find ways to misuse or circumvent them and somehow maim themselves. Man's propensity to be distracted, lazy, careless, show off, or just plain be dumb is extraordinary. Darwin knew what he was talking about...

That's it in a nutshell. It's the operator. Some of the safety devices can be a hazard. If I had to do it over again I would likely go to a large panel saw.
.

[Uncle Cracker]

I think that, no matter how many safeguards are built in to any process, there will always be those idiots who are determined to find ways to misuse or circumvent them and somehow maim themselves. Man's propensity to be distracted, lazy, careless, show off, or just plain be dumb is extraordinary. Darwin knew what he was talking about...