Dovetail Jig, Plate Joiner and Clamps

[wd4lc]

Novice woodworker here. I've built some stuff that basically only requires straight cuts with my bt3. I have a router and thus far I've only used that with a straight bit to build Alex Franke's great router extension table for the BT3.

I'm looking to build a chest and (other like things). Scouring the net to do some research on how to build them, I'm noticing that it may take quite an investment to get it done. I'm realizing that not only do woodworkers work their tail off but there is quite an investment in it all as well.

At first I ran across box joints but then saw a fancier dovetail joint. I searched for a homemade jig and it seems, though it is possible it has been described as quite a task. I'm thinking about buying a dovetail jig and was wondering if there are any recommendations (for instance I've seen some mention here about the Harbor Freight and the Rockler models which drastically vary in price - the P-C and up are way out of my pocket book league). I was wondering what the differences were between these two (other than the bits and free sawdust catcher for the Rockler) and if there was such a thing as a jig that could switch out templates (such as a box/finger joint to a dovetail joint) and therefore be an all-in-one type of jig.

After this I saw a cool video of a guy making a chest and learned how they created wider boards by biscuit/plate joining two together. Of course plate joiners seem to run about $100 or so.

It looks like I'd also need a set of good clamps to clamp everything together until the glue sets properly. I've actually priced these at some of the big box stores in the past and was surprised at how expensive they are. Now I wish I would have picked some up over the holidays when they were yellow tagged.

Long story, short, will you please give some advice on DT jigs, plate/biscuit joiners and clamps? Thank you!

[3thumbs]

There are several cheaper jigs, like the Harbor Freight jig. That one will only set you back $30 or so, if you use your 20% off. I've heard that it is frustrating to set up, but can be useful once you get it down.
I have a MLCS through dovetail template that I mounted on a block. Works fine, but will only do through dovetails. As far as box joints go, there are several free plans on the internet, and you can make your own jig out of scrap.
Clamps and such do cost a bundle. Just be patient, and buy a clamp or two when you can. You will be surprised at how quickly you accumulate stuff!
I found a really good plate joiner at a pawn shop for $30!

DM

[LCHIEN]

dovetail joints look nice, but very good joints can be made with box joints. You can build a box joint jig fairly easily.

If you do opt for dovetails, then you need to know the difference between half-blind and through joints as well as those with fixed spacing and variable spacing.

Clamps - there's a wide variety.
I have a lot of mini quick grips (by Irwin, don't use knockoffs) for small glueups and more F-clamps for 12-36" spans.
F-clamps start to bend excessively after 24+ inches, then I have some aluminum bar clamps for up to 36" assemblies, much stiffer.
For real heavy duty work, The Parallel jaw clamps from Jet, Bessey and Jorgensen work great but cost around 30 bucks apiece.
I don't like pipe clamps the pipes give you great flexibility but I don't like the way they flex. Other people swear by them.

I have a Dewalt Plate joiner. It works nicely, its a specialized tool. Again there are other ways to do this, doweling kits for example cost a lot less and can do an equal job.

there's lots of tools to get your money, some methods you can make your own tools and jogs much cheaper. With woodworking there's usually more than one way to get any job done. It becomes a choice among cheap, elegant, simple, or artsy and what you have on hand is probably most important.

[Mr__Bill]

Harbor Freight (on line and with local stores) has good prices on some clamps, even better when on sale. If you have a source for 1/2 and 3/4" pipe with threads on one end pipe clamps are a really economical way to go. If you have to buy the pipe it more than doubles the cost of each clamp. HF also sells an economical clamp with an aluminum bar and cast fixtures that works well as long as you don't have to have a ton of clamping force. ie. the parts fit and don't need to be forced together. F clamps there are also inexpensive. However the hand grip clamp like these have never been worth buying or using. They are not up to the standard set by the Irwin clamps. Places like Big Lots also often have good prices on furniture clamps.

I have made a point of only addressing clamps because those who built furniture 200 years ago had none of the tools you spoke of except the clamps. Not being snide just saying you don't really have to have them they just make the job faster, easier for the novice and often more pleasurable, ok forget that part about not needing them. Just go slow and give some thought to what you want to accomplish. Through dovetails are often easier to do by hand on one up pieces and biscuits only really help to align parts. I would hold off on the biscuit joiner until you have a real use for one and if investing in a dovetail jig something like this from Porter Cable is a good start and may be all the jig you ever need.

Something you did not mention is having a good work surface to build and assemble things on. Building shop furniture is also a good place to practice and experiment before building the it's for real furniture.

Bill
over here in the rain

[LinuxRandal]

Here is a site that has used several of the dovetail jigs. The more inexpensive ones, are normally limited to one type of dovetail. I still haven't done it (project needs haven't been that fancy) but I have been watching CL (missed two Leighs, for $150), and figure my needs verses budget, will make me go with either hand cut, or the Stots (which I have been wanting to try). Here is the site:
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/dtshoot-1.htm

Now as said, beside biscuits, there are dowells (and the high end dowell jig, I believe costs more then the high end biscuit cutter). I used dowells with an older general jig, until I found pocket screws. I prefer rabbits and glue and pocket screws, and think of bisquits more as just an alignment guide (like Norm, "until the glue drys). The only reason I have a biscuit cutter, is due to a closeout at a local store about two years back (it is still in the case, since I haven't had any shop time in a while). While others can give you recommendations for less expensive ones, don't forget to look at other options.

[Ed62]

My advice would be to check out some of the threads, not only on this site but others, about the best buys from Harbor Freight. Some of their stuff is pretty decent, while other stuff is pure junk. If you were making a living using the tools, it might make quite a difference where you buy them. Harbor Freight quality can't be expected to match the quality of high end tools, but that doesn't mean many of them won't do the job for you. Here's a starter for you http://www.bt3central.com/showthread...r+freight+gems .

Ed

[pelligrini]

Pipe clamps are a good option for flexibility. I've got some some long lengths and several 36" lengths. I also picked some couplers so I can increase the lengths easily without buying more pipe. I prefer the 3/4" clamps to the 1/2" ones. Try to stay away from the cam type pipe clamps. I've never had good luck with them.

Like Loring, I've got a mess of the mini quick grips. I get a lot of use out of them. You can sometimes find 4 packs for $20.

Do yourself a favor and get at least one pair of good parallel clamps. I really wish I had gotten mine sooner than I finally did. I now have several Woodriver and Bessy K-bodies. I liked the Woodrivers at first, but I wish I wouldn't have tried saving a few bucks on getting them instead of the Bessy's. They're just not as solidly built (even though the same company makes them). A few of them aren't clamping anymore as the threaded stud that works against the bars are wearing flat.

Don't waste your money on a box joint jig. They are really easy to build. I spent too much on my Woodsmith jig, at the time it seemed like a good idea. I really didn't feel like building one at the time. It has some nice features and works well, but I should have put my dollars elsewhere (like some good clamps). If you think you might do a lot of box joints take a look at the Freud box joint blade set. One of my better buys. Flat, clean accurate, bottoms and sides every time. I prefer my saw for box joints than the router.

Biscuit jointers are handy, but I don't think they're a must have tool. If mine broke I wouldn't miss it much.

If you don't already have one, you should treat yourself to a decent Random Orbit Sander. My first one was a Craftsman. It was OK, but when my dogs ate the dust bag I got myself a Porter Cable. I didn't know what I was missing.

[Hoover]

Here is a new dovetail jig from General Tool. It is listed @ $54.99, but you can purchase it for $40.00 @ Home Depot. The web page has a demo video showing it in operation. Have a look. http://www.generaltools.com/Products...-Jig__860.aspx

[herb fellows]

You'll notice that most of these discussions center on clamps, simply because it's the one thing that is necessary.
I would buy one good set of clamps and one more economical and make your comparisons. What works for me may not work for you and vice versa, we all have different needs according to our usage. Sometimes you can get away with cheap, sometimes not, you are the only one who can make that call for yourself.
Except for the Besseys and their ilk, which rarely go on sale, you will find sales on some decent clamps, you just have to keep looking at Craigslist and the regular stores (Rockler, Woodcraft etc.) for them. If your luck is anything like mine, if you miss a day, that will be the day they had them for half off:-)
Good luck!

[JimD]

I still have the first dresser I made. It is made of pine shelving boards glued together without biscuits or anything in the joints and the drawers are held together by screws and glue. It has been moved from Philadelphia to Kansas City to Omaha to Pittsburgh and now resides in Lexington, SC. It was often shipped packed full of stuff. It still works fine.

My more recent projects have all had dovetail joints made with a HF jig using a Grizley 7/16 template guide. The HF jig is cheap and nearly identical to other jigs which use a bar to control the depth of cut into the drawer front. It is not easy to set up the first time but once it is set, it works well. One of the tricks of using dovetails is cutting the drawer pieces at exact right angles. If you do not, the drawer will not be straight. If you are patient, you could start out with dovetails but I needed to see a useful end result quicker so I used simple screw and glue (plugging the screw holes so they show somewhat but not unacceptably to us at the time).

I have and use a biscuit jointer but it costs more than a HF dovetail jig and is also not absolutely necessary. You didn't mention a pocket screw jig but I think it would be a better beginners tool. I have a friend that makes kitchens professionally and he uses pocket screws for the drawers, for instance. They are sturdy and you can arrange the construction so they don't readily show. They can also be used for the carcase. You can get a nice one for around $100. I do not think the cheaper ones are worthwhile. I use one sold by Penn State but there is a more popular one that is mostly plastic - the name excapes me but somebody will remember.

One of my first purchases was pipe clamps and I still use them. You need at least 4 that are at least 3 feet long. It is nice to have pipe threaded on both ends so you can extend them with a coupler. 1/2 inch clamps work fine at 3 feet but start to be more flexible at 4 feet or more. 3/4 inch clamps will work to 6 feet or more. I have 4 3 footers, 6 four footers and two six footers. That is usually enough. I also have 4 2 foot bar clamps and a bunch of C-clamps.

A picture frame clamp is handy for holding drawer or carcase pieces at right angles while you are putting in screws. They are pretty cheap.

Jim

[wd4lc]

Thank you.

Thank you 3thumbs, LCHIEN, Mr__Bill, LinuxRandal, Ed62, pelligrini, Hoover, herb fellows and JimD. As always fantastic expert advice. Much appreciated!

It sounds like the best option for now is to (attempt) build a finger box jig and experiment with that before I dive into a big purchase. I definitely want to try dovetails in the future and actually I think I would go all out and get the P-C that was recommended. Definitely more than I had planned on spending but at least it has templates (or capabilities) for half blind and thru dovetails (thanks for bringing up the difference LCHIEN) as well finger.
I'm going to do some further reading to see if the better choice is router or dado for those finger joints. Seems like I remember seeing differing opinions on which is better in terms of ease and quality (tear out, I think).

Dowels. Duh. That sounds like the best (or at least most economical) thing to start with as well for joining boards side by side. Also a great suggestion about pocket screws for corners.

I checked out some of those dowel jigs and was surprised that some of those run about $50. Admittedly they do seem nice though.
Even the pocket screw kits were around that mark (granted these were the deluxe models). I guess Low** isn't exactly the best place for these things. They basically had one offset small aisle with one jig (P-C) and one brand of pocket screw kits and dowels.
They did have a few clamps and wow does the price jump when you get to 3+'.

Thanks again for the great personal expertise and information and links. Bookmarked!