Biesemeyer fence question

[jussi]

This question will probably make me sound real stupid but what does the back rail of the Biesmeyer fence do? I'm finally getting around to installing mine and was going over the instructions. The fence doesn't seem to ride on it and it doesn't lock in 2 places like my stock fence. Is it there to allow extension tables to be mounted or am I my not seeing something obvious.

[BerniePA]

The leg coming off the rear of the fence SHOULD be resting on the back rail. This actually keeps the bottom of the fence raised off the top of the saw top. The fence should NOT drag on the saw top when you move it across. It should be contacting on the leg on the back rail and on the T section at the lever or Head end. Make any sense or just add to the confusion??

[BerniePA]

Now that I've answered, maybe I should ask -- What saw do you have?? I was basing my answer on you NOT having at BT3xxx.

[jussi]

Well in the instructions it says to keep the notch part of the back rail 1/16" below the miter gauge slots which make the entire rail below the TS top.

Besides if the rail extends above the top won't the wood hit it as I'm pushing it through.

[BerniePA]

I guess I added to the confusion. You are talking about the rail and yes it needs to be mounted lower than the miter slots. I was talking about a leg that comes from the bottom of the fence and rides on the top of the back rail. you should have a leg of some sort probably about 1/4" in Diameter with a round "foot" and the end opposite the foot screws into the bottom of the fence, probably in the center of the fence, (on the end), and then rests on the rail when the fence is in position. It gets adjusted so that it just clears the saw table top when it is on the rear rail so it does not drag on the top when you move the fence to adjust the fence for a cut. ___|___ sort of like the drawing where the line ____ is the top of the rear rail and the | is the leg extending down from the bottom of the end of the fence (not shown).

You do have this "leg" don't you? It hasn't gone missing in action on you, has it?

It sounds like you are on the right track in mounting the rail so it is just below the miter slots. If you have the leg and screw it into the fence, it should become apparent how it comes together. If the "leg" is not there, then I can see where confusion can come into play since there really would seem to be no reason for the rear rail and the fence would just sit and drag on the saw top. Check your parts drawing.

[JSUPreston]

From what I understand, the newer Bieses do not have the leg you mention. I know when I got mine, it was not in the package, nor in the instructions. When I looked at the bottom of the fence, a mounting location for the leg wasn't there either (IIRC). So, for the newer Bies fences, the back rail helps hold up the aux table and gives a mounting location for an outfeed.

That being said (and there was a thread about this recently), I don't think it would be too hard to tap a hole and add a bolt to serve as a leg.

[jussi]

oic. No this model doesn't have that leg and the fence drags on the top.

[cabinetman]

From what I understand, the newer Bieses do not have the leg you mention. I know when I got mine, it was not in the package, nor in the instructions. When I looked at the bottom of the fence, a mounting location for the leg wasn't there either (IIRC). So, for the newer Bies fences, the back rail helps hold up the aux table and gives a mounting location for an outfeed.

That being said (and there was a thread about this recently), I don't think it would be too hard to tap a hole and add a bolt to serve as a leg.

I've had several Biesemeyer fences and none had a foot for the back rail. I've used the back rail as a mount for a right side table, or it may integrate with the table and leg assembly from Biesemeyer.

The right side table can be one piece front to back beyond the rear of the saw, with no support for the fence. The fence glides on the table surface, and has a glide pad, but no foot... at least the ones I've had.
.

[BerniePA]

Ok, I guess I stand corrected. I was speaking from my limited experience with the one that came with my Grizzly and it is a Shop Fox Aluma-Classic which is I guess not a "true" Biesemeyer, but I thought they were all basically the same. Apparently not.

I think from what I have found in this thread that I kind of prefer having the leg and having the fence held off the table top slighly so as NOT to drag across it when it is moved. I think it would move with less friction and also less possibility of scracthing the table top some how. Any other opinons on this?

[jussi]

Ok, I guess I stand corrected. I was speaking from my limited experience with the one that came with my Grizzly and it is a Shop Fox Aluma-Classic which is I guess not a "true" Biesemeyer, but I thought they were all basically the same. Apparently not.

I think from what I have found in this thread that I kind of prefer having the leg and having the fence held off the table top slighly so as NOT to drag across it when it is moved. I think it would move with less friction and also less possibility of scracthing the table top some how. Any other opinons on this?

The only down side I could see is you couldn't put the outfeed table flush against the TS table. And depending on how large the gap between the fence and top was, thin veneer strips might slip in between the gap.

[LarryG]

I think from what I have found in this thread that I kind of prefer having the leg and having the fence held off the table top slighly so as NOT to drag across it when it is moved. I think it would move with less friction and also less possibility of scracthing the table top some how. Any other opinons on this?

My PM2000 fence, another clone of the basic Biese design, has a small UHMW pad on the bottom, back end of the fence. Despite its weight the fence glides easily; and there's far less chance this pad would scratch the top than some of the gnarly rough lumber I've fed across the saw. The pad does hold the fence off the table far enough for very thin materials to slip under it, but there are easy fixes for that (an auxiliary fence held on with a couple clamps is one).

IIRC the UHMW faces on the fence extend a little below the steel tube, so there'd still be no scratching hazard were this pad not there. The fence might be a lot harder to slide, though.

One disadvantage of the Biese style fence is that there's nothing to hold the back end down if you want to mount featherboards or anti-kickback rollers that apply downward pressure. I've seen a variety of homebrewed solutions for this, usually involving some sort of clip angle gadget that interlocks with the rear rail.

[SARGE..g-47]

To clear up the confusion about the leg Bernie mentioned on a Biesemeyer.. he is part right and part wrong. Now.. how could that be?

The original Biesemeyer did have a leg which was actually a bolt that screwed into the bottom of the Biese fence. The bolt has a round nylon pad on the base of it that actually touched and rode the rear rail. The bolt adjusted the rear fence height off the table by simply turning it clock-wise to lower and counter-clockwise to raise. Therefore the rear fence did not drag on the table.

But.. but... Biesemeyer changed the design even before Delta bought Biesemeyer and dropped that rear leg or bolt from the design for whatever reason. But.. they continued to supply a rear rail to do what has been been mentioned about attaching rear and side extentions. The reason they did that is not really known but suspect to saving on production cost.

So.. yes... the newer style (this was years ago when the leg was there) drags the table. As Larry says.. if you don't have any type pad under the fence add one with Slick tape or whatever and it will silde better.

Or you can purchase a Steel City Industrail fence which is a Biesemeyer clone and get the leg on the fence from the factory. They have 3 screw holes to mount the leg in to adapt to several saw table widths. The folks that founded Steel City worked for Delta and Power-matic for years and were aware of the rear leg as mentioned. They decided to put it back on their design. There might be another odd man out company that does it also.. I am not aware.

BTW.. the difference between that rear leg on and off is with it on.. you can nudge your fence with it on and you better hurry to the end of the table to keep it from launching into the next county. I added a UHMW stop at the end of my rail to keep it from doing just that as with that leg.. the fence does not touch the table an glides on the rails as slick as a babies behind.

And now you know the rest of the story as Paul Harvey would say...

[SARGE..g-47]

The only down side I could see is you couldn't put the outfeed table flush against the TS table. And depending on how large the gap between the fence and top was, thin veneer strips might slip in between the gap.

I have the rear leg on my Steel City 5 HP TS jussi.. and you can mount the rear extention flush if you know how. I engineered a way to do it by adding a block of wood the height (less the thickness of the extention table) of rear rail bottom and top of table and bolted it on the bottom of the rear rail. I also added two dowels that correspond to the table where it meets the rear of the TS table. The table simply fits over them and drops down to TS table height.

I intentionally left a 1/4" gap and dropped the rear extension down about 3mm to avoid snag. You do have to cut a slot on the fence side to allow the rear bolt (leg.. whatever) to ride the rail far enough to get the fence face to that side of the blade as you mentioned. But.. there is more than sufficient support from the opposite side that it doesn' structually matter. I have run in excess of 3000 linear feet across that extention since last September so there is no problems.

[SARGE..g-47]

One disadvantage of the Biese style fence is that there's nothing to hold the back end down if you want to mount featherboards or anti-kickback rollers that apply downward pressure. I've seen a variety of homebrewed solutions for this, usually involving some sort of clip angle gadget that interlocks with the rear rail.[/QUOTE] Larry

I use hold-downs on the fence about every day Larry.. by simply Quik-clamping a piece of stock to the fence. I use a short fence on the face of my long fence but the Quik Clamps make short work of getting the hold-down in place. Just a thought for those that would like to use the method. I think I have a picture.

BTW.. that PM 2000 you have is a nice TS.

[LarryG]

The folks that founded Steel City worked for Delta and Power-matic for years and were aware of the rear leg as mentioned.

This triggered a vague memory. I checked the manual for the fence on my saw, and sure enough, the exploded drawing and parts list shows the rear leg, in addition to the UMHW pad. My fence did not actually include the leg, however -- just the pad.

So when you use your clamped-on hold down, you just rely on gravity to keep the fence firmly down on the table? I have used a similar setup but added another Quick Grip at the rear rail, to hold the back end of the fence down.