Ultimate finishing sander?

[Carlos]

I'm tired of annoying cheap sanders. I'd like something that makes me look forward to finishing my project, not dread it. Festool? Fein? Are they worth it? I love the nearly dust-free results of the Festool, and assume (!) that I'd have the same dust-free results with my shop DC instead of their vacuum?

I'm ready to spend whatever it takes for:

No dust
Paper doesn't slip
Smooth finish
No sore arm

[drumpriest]

Your DC will be less effective than a shop vac for use with a sander, by the time you neck down to the size of a sander, you loose too much CFM. Even a cheap shop vac will do a great job with a sander that has decent DC setup. My Bosch does very well, the only time I get dust escaping is when sanding off the edge of something.

The festool shroud allows for slightly better DC around the edges and less clogging because of the hole in the middle, so that's cool, and they have paper to really fine grits for it (2000 grit on a ROS). I can't tell you if it's worth the $$$, as that's really more of your choice.

The only thing that I really hate about my sander is the vibration on my hands, things start to go numb, which is sad. I've never had paper "slip", so I dunno what you mean, it falls off the sander?!? really?? You probably need a new pad on the bottom of your sander.

[master53yoda]

Shop vac static pressure is close to double that of a DC which also doubles the cfm through small hoses. Notice that nails etc are not normally picked up by a DC but a vacuum will pick them up no problem.

A vacuum could collapse a garbage can like is shown in one of the other threads. A DC could not collapse a garbage can like that.

Long and short, anything with a small hose (smaller then 3") will not work as well with a DC as they will with a good shopvac. Fesstools vac appears to be even a higher static pressure then normal.

[Carlos]

Well, I got impatient and did some shopping. They talked me down from the Festool to a Porter Cable for about $85. At that price it seemed worth a try. Also a customer was in there who owns one and loves it. They have a 90 day don't-like-it-return it policy.

I'm trying to avoid the noise and cost of a shop vac. I'll try it with the DC and see what happens. As it is, the built-in collection system does a pretty good job with pickup, but the filter they give you is quite coarse. My fine particle count shot up to 2k. I need to find an adapter to fit the DC hose to it.

[drumpriest]

Well, good luck with the DC. I use a "shop vac" 5 gal I got for 30$ at big lots and installed a hepa filter in it. PC sanders typically have 5 holes rather than 8 on a Bosch, for instance. I'm pretty sure that if you ask there will be people who "love" their Bosch, PC, Ryobi, Festool, etc....

I think most of them do a good enough job with enough suction to the sander, and I still wear a paint mask when sanding, and run my air filter. The noise is an issue with the vac, I suppose, but my DC is pretty loud too...

Let us know how it works out for ya with the DC attached, it may be difficult to tell, but it seems you have a particulate meter of some form, so....measure and let us know....

[LinuxRandal]

You can get a shop vac inexpensively, or expensively. Ridgid to Fein (lower frequency noise with SNR to lower noise vac). If you have one already (garage/car stuff), try searching for a shop vac muzzle or noise reducing box (here or google), as that may cause you to be happy with it/them.

[Carlos]

I finished a Bubinga cabinet tonight. The sander works great, I really like it. There's a huge leap from a $25 sander to an $85 sander in usability and comfort.

The dust control with the DC is quite good. I got a bit of build-up on the sander body itself, but not a lot in the air. I had the air filter running on low. The particulate meter was in the 600 range for <.5 micron and I don't recall the count on large particles (not high). This is in a closed garage.

I am going to borrow a higher-end Ridgid shop vac and try it out. I don't think it will do better than the DC, but I'd like to know. Also the 2.5" hose is a bit annoying to have dangling from the sander.

[drumpriest]

The shop vac will def move more air in a smaller diameter hose, without a proper filter though, it'll blow dust back into the air, so you may find invalid readings on your meter unless there's filter on the vac at least as good your DC filter.

I would think the difference in draw would only affect the larger particulates anyway, as the really small ones require less CFM to move.

[leehljp]

You did not mention this but VS on my last Ryobi ROS was a huge help. I was not expecting it to come in so handy. I had a PC and DeWalt ROS over here but needed one for some work while back in the States in '05. I was re-modeling the kitchen so I bought the VS ROS from HD. Slow speed helped in scoring the wall for tile adhesion. Fast was helpful in smoothing. The different speeds accomplished different results with same sandpaper grit.

[LarryG]

You might want to try the Abranet discs, which are made of a perforated material that allows much improved dust collection. I've not tried them and their matching backer pads yet -- got a big stock of regular discs to burn through first -- but I will, because I've read a lot of glowing comments about them. One well-known magazine editor described the Abranet system as "like alien technology."

[ksum]

I have used the Abranet discs and found that I change them less and have less dust left on the workpiece. I started with them on the 6" Ridgid disc sander, and then got a Festool 5" for finishing after trying one out.

One thing the guy at the store told me when I was looking at the Festool was to watch for too much suction when running a vac/DC off the sanders. The problem seems to be that too much suction pulls the paper tighter to the workpiece as it creates a slight vacuum. This does not happen with the Abranet product, as it allows enough flow.

Regarding the Festool, I ended up with that after test driving it because I felt little if any vibration and found that I had great control over the sander. I was thinking of a 5" sander, and honestly leaning towards others. "How can a sander be worth that much?" was my thought. Now I enjoy sanding, which I use to dread.

Karl

[Carlos]

All good points. The vac I'm going to try has a HEPA filter and very high suction, so it should show the improvement quite well.

I haven't yet experimented much with the speed control, or read the manual (presumably that's covered in it).

[ksum]

Watch for too much suction. The festool vac has an adjustable opening to vent off some of the suction. Apparently you can feel the difference when set properly. I just use a small shop vac with the abranet and don't have the high suction problem.

I spoke with someone who noticed a big difference in sanding and paper life when they vented their generic vac similar to the Festool vac. They took a piece of tubing about the same size as the vac tubing and around 4" long, found about a 2" long piece of C shaped piece of plastic (PVC Pipe?) that fit snug on the outside of the tubing, put a rectangular hole in the first tube that could be covered fully by the C shaped piece, and spin the larger C shaped one to adjust the opening size. This was inserted between 2 hose sections. Basically you close it off fully, put the sander on a board, turn on the vac, and lift the sander. You shoud feel a bit of the vacuum pulling the sander to the board. Open the vent until you don't feel the vacuum and you should be good to go. The claim is better performance on the sander, less scratches and faster finish sanding, and better paper life.

Karl

[Carlos]

Good points.

I wonder if this is 11 times better than the PC I just bought:

http://www.hechinger.com/hardware/to...it-sander.html

[ksum]

11 times? I doubt it. But maybe 10! ;-)