What's the hot setup for dust collection?

[milanuk]

Figured that might grab a couple looks

Well, it's that time of year again when I start spending more time in the basement shop. It's a combination woodworking and reloading area, so it does have to stay fairly clean as far as dust goes.

To date I've been making do with a broom, foxtail, dustpan, and Ridgid shop vac. I don't have a lot of 'big' tools so it's been working - sort of. Gets most of the dust/debris, but not all of it, and certainly not much of the 'fine' stuff.

Here's what I have and what I've been working with:

BT3100 - shop vac (now I need a splitter to go to the new SharkGuard hood w/ its vacuum port)
14" bandsaw - been using the shop vac on the small port near the lower blade guides, but nothing on the 4" main port - just vacuum it out as needed
6" jointer - has a 4" port, but nothing to hook it up to - fashioned a 'chute' out of cardboard to direct the shavings to a bucket, and vacuum around the top as needed.
DW735 planer - I have the blower hose and bag top going to a dedicated 30 gallon trash bin, which actually works pretty well. Not much fines generated on this machine
Makita 10" SCMS - shop vac is no where near enough air movement to even attempt keeping this pig clean
benchtop router table - shop vac, again, need a 'Y' to collect both from the fence and from below the table
hand held router, guided circ saw, jig saw, sanders, etc. - been using the shop vac but the small hose seems to have problems drawing enough air to do effective dust collection, espeically on the router which can make a heck of a mess.

I've got a Thien lid for a 10 gallon trash can about half done; hopefully that should help with some of the shop-vac problems; I figure if I can keep the filter bag cleaner longer, it should pull more air and pick up more dust. Yes/no/maybe?

I've been kind of waffling between a HF 2hp DC, or a Delta 50-760. in reality I could probably afford either, or even a little better if there is something in the ball park. Sounds like the HF is about half the price, but would need close to half that difference in upgrades (filters, bags, neutral vane, etc.). I have a blue poly 55 gallon drum from work that I was planning on making into a big Thien separator if I got either one of these. The other option would be to fork over a bit more for one of the newer standalone portable 2-3hp cyclones.

I guess at this point I'm not really convinced that I'd be seeing a huge increase in performance for the money spent on a bigger dust collector setup - a lot of my tools are smaller, and use primarily 1.5-2.25" ports. My understanding is that those tools would be 'starved' running hooked up to a regular dust collector? At that point, is there that much value in forking over for more machine than the HF unit, which would be a big jump in and of itself over what I have now (for the machines w/ 4" ports, at least) and can be upgraded over time as opportunity and desire allows?

Any other suggestions or insights?

[poolhound]

I have the 50-760 and love it. I dont think one really comprehends how much dust there really is until its gone. I used to have a fine layer of dust covering most things. after getting the DC this was hugely reduced. At some point I intend to buy or make a dust filer system and hope to get the majority of the remaining fines out of the air.

The 50-760 got great reviews in wood magazine earlier in the year. It really does a great job on the planer and jointer which are the big chip producers. I use it with the regular dust port on the BT and also made a belly pan.

I use it with most of my tools excpet the smallest such as sanders and the shop vac is fine for those.

[jackellis]

I don't have space for a dust collector now, but I intend to add one when I move into a new shop next spring. IMHO the biggest benefit is getting fine dust out of the air I'm breathing. I sometimes wear a respirator but it's a pain and I have a beard (LOML insists) so it doesn't seal perfectly. A DC will solve one of the biggest problems keeping things clean, which is sawdust that escapes my cabinet saw from the top.

As for the filter in the vac, I've found emptying the vacuum more often helps, and I use a one pound margarine tub to scoop out the chips instead of trying to dump the vacuum barrel into a plastic garbage bag. I'm also going to change out the filter (I rinse and reuse mine) more often.

If you have the space and the money, I think a DC is worthwhile to protect your health and keep things reasonably clean. I've been in small cabinet shops where there's so much sawdust on everything you wonder why the owner didn't suffocate.

[cgallery]

I think if you want to collect from two ports (like the blade shroud on the BT3K, and the Shark Guard port) at the same time, you're gonna need a DC. The shop vacs just don't move enough CFM.

The Delta is highly rated, I don't think you can go wrong with it.

Due to my Yankeeness (I'm cheap), I'd watch craigslist for a good deal on a used 1-1/2 to 2-HP (depending on whether I had 220) unit with low-micron bags or a cart. filter.

[milanuk]

Forgot to mention, I'm going to be dangerously close to a Harbor Freight store on Saturday I'd have to order and pay shipping (and possibly still sales tax) on anything else.

[JR]

Forgot to mention, I'm going to be dangerously close to a Harbor Freight store on Saturday I'd have to order and pay shipping (and possibly still sales tax) on anything else.

I think I saw the HF 2HP unit for $189 in a recent flier. Not the best price ever, but a good one.

JR

[poolhound]

Forgot to mention, I'm going to be dangerously close to a Harbor Freight store on Saturday I'd have to order and pay shipping (and possibly still sales tax) on anything else.

Dont forget Amazon is still free shipping and no sales tax. If you go with HF you and are planning the filer upgrades you will still need to order these online.

[dbhost]

Assuming you have the budget and room for the equipment, and plumbing I would...

#1. Keep your Ridgid Shop Vac. Forget the 10 gallon can unless you have only one tool such as a Ridgid Sander you want to collect dust from. It simply isn't big enough. I learned the hard way... Just want to save you the hassle...
#2. Decide which machines the high static pressure / low CFM of a shop vac and it's 2.5" port are appropriate for. Generally speaking, I find my planer, and sander like the shop vac setup. My table saw and band saw with badly designed dust ports don't. Mind you, a 14" band saw is NEVER going to be well considered for its dust collection properties. BUT.... Generally speaking, saws should be on a 4" port. Router table is a bit of a question mark. I have a friend with 4" DC, mine is 2.5, and we both have crap left over when routing, I honestly think my 2.5" picks up off the fence better, his clears out the cavity below better...
#3. Keep your 55 gallon open top drum. Make a 4" duct based (or bigger if you are listening to Bill Pentz) Thien Cyclone lid for it.
#4. Take your 30 gallon steel trash can and build a 2.5" based Thien Cyclone lid for it.
#5. If your Ridgid vac didn't come with the HEPA filter, get one, if yours is dirty, wash it from the inside out. Don't rely on the standard, or even the "fine" filter. ONLY use the HEPA filter. The idea is to keep the crud out of your lungs.
#6. If you are going to use the shop vac on the BT3x00, go back to the articles, and read up on dust collection improvements. I know my BTS-21 is LOUSY with dust collection. I get the little bit that comes down to the shroud, but there is still a pile under the saw when I am done. If you go with a 4", you will have to split, and neck down, that reduces CFM pretty badly, and you don't have high static lift to counteract that. I am simply unsure if that is a wise idea... Others might be able to tell you better...
#7. On your dust collector, if the Delta, or Grizzly, or whatever you are looking at doesn't honestly filter 1 micron or less, forget it. And many of the MFGs lie about their ratings. Lots of folks here, and Bill Pentz recommends the Wynn Environmental 35 filter kit for a good reason. You are best off money wise adding the 35A to a HF 2HP dust collector. Get the newer model with the true 2HP motor instead of the older ones...

So your layout should look something like this.

2.5" tool port to 2.5" hose, as short as is feasable for that tool connection. 2.5" blast gate to 2.5" plumbing setup. Avoid turns if at all possible. No joke, try to keep those lines STRAIGHT, every turn cuts CFM, every bump in the hose, cuts CFM. Got it? Keep the hose short, and the plumbing straight. Then go to a Thien Cyclone lid on your 30 gallon steel trash can, and finally to the vac with a HEPA filter, either Ridgid, or CleanStream by Gore.

AND...

Same setup for 4", except when you get to the cyclone, use your 55 gallon drum, then go to a Harbor Freight dust collector, with the clear plastic bag on the bottom, and a Wynn 35A filter on top.

So long winded story short, BOTH have their uses, and are particularly appropriate for certain types of tools. If you could only do one, I would start with the wet dry vac setup. But follow with a full on DC as soon as you can...

BTW, no matter what you do with that CMS, dust collection is going to stink. The best thing you can do is one of those giant funnel looking things mounted behind it to TRY to catch the debris as it slings off the blade, but I haven't heard of, or seen anyone with good luck with those...

[drunkcat]

milanuk--

I've been looking too and have been leaning towards the Delta 760. Steel City has a comparable model #836828 that Woodcraft has right now for $299. I think the specs are identical to the 760. I haven't been able to find anyone with an opinion about the SC-seems like a good buy though


http://www.woodcraft.com/product.asp...FamilyID=20305

[milanuk]

Hmmm... flipping through the latest sales flier for Harbor Freight - HF 2hp DC w/ 5 micron filter ~$250.

$180-190... probably would have went that route. $250 (plus tax, plus upgrades)... nada.

The Steel City products usually seem pretty solid... just wish someone had some test results on it. The 1.5-2hp dust collector field is littered with units with seemingly identical specs, but when the dust settles (pardon the pun! ) the test reports usually tell a different story.

[poolhound]

The wood magazine DC test (models under $400) was in the march 2008 issue. They did test a steel city DC but a different model (65200). The 50-760 came out tops in the 4" and 5" tests.

The testers especially liked a number of things.

1. the impeller directly connected to the collection bags. No Jumper hose with the performance reducing 90 degree bend.
2. The considered it to have the best bag mounting system.

If you know how they tend to score tools the Delta ranked "A" in all the performance categories.

They also liked the Griz G1029Z, it is a 2HP unit but requires a dedicated 220V supply. The standard bag(at time of review) was 2.5 micron vs the delta's 1 micron.

[gettools]

I have the HF unit bought on CL for $75.00 and upgraded to the Wynns cartridge and it seem to work very well. Keep looking on CL there is usually one on there.

[milanuk]

Craigslist and such seems to work a lot better when you live in a more urban area. More listings, more competition, lower prices. Around here... not so much.

[dbhost]

Hmmm... flipping through the latest sales flier for Harbor Freight - HF 2hp DC w/ 5 micron filter ~$250.

$180-190... probably would have went that route. $250 (plus tax, plus upgrades)... nada.

The Steel City products usually seem pretty solid... just wish someone had some test results on it. The 1.5-2hp dust collector field is littered with units with seemingly identical specs, but when the dust settles (pardon the pun! ) the test reports usually tell a different story.

Look at the HF website. The 2HP DC is going for $199.00 or less. Not really sure right now. Yeah I wouldn't pay $250.00 for one...

[milanuk]

I've looked at the web site. I also looked at the flyer I got in the mail day before last. The web site has been incorrect or out of date before. I'm not one who gets any joy from driving three hours to haggle with a store manager over which price is right. I'll just buy elsewhere, and probably get a better base machine to work with.