**** plywood!! (Tool rant)

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • chopnhack
    Veteran Member
    • Oct 2006
    • 3779
    • Florida
    • Ryobi BT3100

    #1

    **** plywood!! (Tool rant)

    yes this is about a tool......its a torture device known as a lock miter bit. This 1/2" shank router bit is known to destroy many a test board, hours of your day and your sense of woodworking. Use it at your own peril.



    I spent the better part, between 3 rain episodes, of my entire work day trying to zero in on the perfect lock miter joint. Bear in mind, my work day is a couple of hours around the small one's sleep schedule since my workspace and his nap space are adjoining. Between setting up my router station which I wheel outside for better lighting and ventilation and breaking it down and running inside everytime it rained I was getting the impression that I should just give up. After the 15th test cut and adjustment I realized why I was chasing my tail.......the **** cheap a$$ birch "cabinet grade" - scoff -Borg plywood is dimensionally(thinner/thicker) different between sheets! So now instead of being able to have a nice miter with no ply end grain I have to come up with another assembly method to which I will have to attach a false front to hide the plywood. Nothing like adding a step and expense to a project. Later that day, to really end it all, I was finishing the dados on the router table for the plywood bottoms of my drawers and with only 3 sides left to groove my undersized plywood bit snapped off.

    I am really looking forward to my next time in the shop where I have to try and match the routed dado's using my table saw and the stock blade that should be fun.

    After spending an entire shop day finishing with clear lacquer both sides of the sheets I ended up ripping down to the drawer parts I noticed that the plywood decided to change shape and become somewhat wavy

    Ever have one of those projects that starts off nice enough and goes downhill from there?

    End of rant.

    ....the wood won this time
    I think in straight lines, but dream in curves
  • drumpriest
    Veteran Member
    • Feb 2004
    • 3338
    • Pittsburgh, Pa, USA.
    • Powermatic PM 2000

    #2
    Your rant mirrors my experience with the lock miter. I think it's easier to just cut dovetails, to be honest. I've lately been doing mortise and loose tenon drawer joints for my shop drawers, holds up great, fairly easy to do (domino) and does not matter what the ply thickness is. Doweling would work just as well.
    Keith Z. Leonard
    Go Steelers!

    Comment

    • steve-norrell
      Veteran Member
      • Apr 2006
      • 1001
      • The Great Land - Alaska
      • BT3100-1

      #3
      I have had good results using lock miter bits on solid wood (oak. pine, poplar) and MDF, but unpredictable results using Borg plywood. I don't even try with plywood any more. MLCS has on on-line instructional video that could be helpful at:

      http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...r_video_anchor

      You are right that it takes time to setup a lock miter bit, but it is really worth it in the end if the joint is going to be exposed. I also recommend using a "set-up" block and then be prepared to do several test runs before you get it just right.

      Regards, Steve

      Comment

      • jackellis
        Veteran Member
        • Nov 2003
        • 2638
        • Tahoe City, CA, USA.
        • BT3100

        #4
        Thanks for the warning. I'm about to start building some shop drawers using a drawer lock bit like the MLCS version http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_door.html#drawer_lock_bits_anchor.

        I guess that's going to take up most of tomorrow.

        Comment

        • poolhound
          Veteran Member
          • Mar 2006
          • 3196
          • Phoenix, AZ
          • BT3100

          #5
          I have had similar issues with BORG ply. I just wont use it anymore except for the most basic non critical projects.
          Jon

          Phoenix AZ - It's a dry heat
          ________________________________

          We all make mistakes and I should know I've made enough of them
          techzibits.com

          Comment

          • cabinetman
            Gone but not Forgotten RIP
            • Jun 2006
            • 15216
            • So. Florida
            • Delta

            #6
            A rabbet joint works well every time for plywood drawer sides. With the front and back set into a rabbet in the sides with glue, fasteners can be shot through the front, which would be covered by a false front if designed that way, and the back of the drawer won't be seen. For shop drawers or utility drawers, fasteners can be shot through the sides. With no fasteners and just glue and clamps, it's still a good strong joint.
            .

            .

            Comment

            • rcp612
              Established Member
              • May 2005
              • 358
              • Mount Vernon, OH, USA.
              • Bosch 4100-09

              #7
              Originally posted by poolhound
              I have had similar issues with BORG ply. I just wont use it anymore except for the most basic non critical projects.
              I second that!!
              Borg "cabinet grade" birch was on sale a while back and looked really good in the store. Got it home, it's flat and square,,,,until after the cuts were made. The next day when assembly was going to start, I couldn't find a flat piece, except for the other sheet that I hadn't cut yet.
              I contribute this phenominum to the fact that I found over-lapping plys on the edges where I cut. And I think that also contributes to the fact that the thickness varies not only from sheet to sheet, but, within the same sheet.
              Unlike poolhound, I won't use it for anything,,,,,not even concrete forms.
              Do like you always do,,,,,,Get what you always get!!

              Comment

              • JimD
                Veteran Member
                • Feb 2003
                • 4187
                • Lexington, SC.

                #8
                I don't try anything more complicated than a dado in plywood other than baltic birch. Even it chips out worse than solid wood but if you are careful, you can probably cut a lock miter in baltic birch. I am normally cutting dovetails for drawers.

                Jim

                Comment

                • chopnhack
                  Veteran Member
                  • Oct 2006
                  • 3779
                  • Florida
                  • Ryobi BT3100

                  #9

                  Glad to see I'm not the only one!

                  Thanks for the replies. I was thinking of maybe using the lock rabbet joint. I think cabman's simpler joint might be in order though -- I need to finish this project while my nerves are still in order

                  Thanks all
                  I think in straight lines, but dream in curves

                  Comment

                  • khf314
                    Forum Newbie
                    • Jul 2008
                    • 44
                    • Sunland, CA (Los Angeles)
                    • Craftsman 21829

                    #10
                    BTW, has anyone tried using something like this for drawers? http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...50,43298,43315 Just wondering.......
                    Kris Freyermuth
                    "Even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat."

                    Comment

                    • chopnhack
                      Veteran Member
                      • Oct 2006
                      • 3779
                      • Florida
                      • Ryobi BT3100

                      #11
                      I have not but I know that one of the kitchen guys I know says that they slap together pretty easy and some people prefer them on high end kitchens - i guess more of a modern look. As you can tell by the price though they are not cheap
                      I think in straight lines, but dream in curves

                      Comment

                      • cabinetman
                        Gone but not Forgotten RIP
                        • Jun 2006
                        • 15216
                        • So. Florida
                        • Delta

                        #12
                        Originally posted by chopnhack
                        I have not but I know that one of the kitchen guys I know says that they slap together pretty easy and some people prefer them on high end kitchens - i guess more of a modern look. As you can tell by the price though they are not cheap

                        You're right, they're not cheap. I've used them and you still need to make fronts and backs. Having multiple/different materials in the same drawer looks cheap. Looks like a drawer made from whatever was laying around. IMO, an all wood or hardwood plywood drawer looks best.
                        .

                        Comment

                        • pecker
                          Established Member
                          • Jun 2003
                          • 388
                          • .

                          #13
                          "So now instead of being able to have a nice miter with no ply end grain I have to come up with another assembly method to which I will have to attach a false front to hide the plywood."

                          Does it really need to be a locking miter joint?
                          I do miter and bevel cuts all the time and just glue them together. If needed, a biscuit here and there will help keep the corners from falling apart during glue-up.

                          Comment

                          • jking
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2003
                            • 972
                            • Des Moines, IA.
                            • BT3100

                            #14
                            Originally posted by chopnhack

                            Glad to see I'm not the only one!

                            Thanks for the replies. I was thinking of maybe using the lock rabbet joint. I think cabman's simpler joint might be in order though -- I need to finish this project while my nerves are still in order

                            Thanks all
                            The one time I used a lock rabbet joint for a drawer, I mis-cut the drawer width. I didn't realize it until the day after glue-up. I was able to recut one side & salvage most of the drawer. In the process of the fix I did figure out the joint is plenty strong. Not very difficult to cut either. I built the drawer before I owned a table saw. I cut the lock rabbets with a straight edge & circular saw. It's not much more involved than a regular rabbet joint.

                            Comment

                            • chopnhack
                              Veteran Member
                              • Oct 2006
                              • 3779
                              • Florida
                              • Ryobi BT3100

                              #15
                              Originally posted by pecker
                              "So now instead of being able to have a nice miter with no ply end grain I have to come up with another assembly method to which I will have to attach a false front to hide the plywood."

                              Does it really need to be a locking miter joint?
                              I do miter and bevel cuts all the time and just glue them together. If needed, a biscuit here and there will help keep the corners from falling apart during glue-up.
                              No, it doesn't have to be a locking miter joint, but I figured some type of mechanical interconnection would be better than just a butt joint. Miter cut would be nice and simple, but I don't have a biscuit joiner and don't have the patience to watch the joint with glue slid around as I try to clamp it

                              I'm feeling adventurous today so I might try the locking rabbet, we'll see
                              I think in straight lines, but dream in curves

                              Comment

                              Working...