**** plywood!! (Tool rant)

[chopnhack]

"So now instead of being able to have a nice miter with no ply end grain I have to come up with another assembly method to which I will have to attach a false front to hide the plywood."

Does it really need to be a locking miter joint?
I do miter and bevel cuts all the time and just glue them together. If needed, a biscuit here and there will help keep the corners from falling apart during glue-up.

No, it doesn't have to be a locking miter joint, but I figured some type of mechanical interconnection would be better than just a butt joint. Miter cut would be nice and simple, but I don't have a biscuit joiner and don't have the patience to watch the joint with glue slid around as I try to clamp it

I'm feeling adventurous today so I might try the locking rabbet, we'll see

[jking]

Glad to see I'm not the only one!

Thanks for the replies. I was thinking of maybe using the lock rabbet joint. I think cabman's simpler joint might be in order though -- I need to finish this project while my nerves are still in order

Thanks all

The one time I used a lock rabbet joint for a drawer, I mis-cut the drawer width. I didn't realize it until the day after glue-up. I was able to recut one side & salvage most of the drawer. In the process of the fix I did figure out the joint is plenty strong. Not very difficult to cut either. I built the drawer before I owned a table saw. I cut the lock rabbets with a straight edge & circular saw. It's not much more involved than a regular rabbet joint.

[pecker]

"So now instead of being able to have a nice miter with no ply end grain I have to come up with another assembly method to which I will have to attach a false front to hide the plywood."

Does it really need to be a locking miter joint?
I do miter and bevel cuts all the time and just glue them together. If needed, a biscuit here and there will help keep the corners from falling apart during glue-up.

[cabinetman]

I have not but I know that one of the kitchen guys I know says that they slap together pretty easy and some people prefer them on high end kitchens - i guess more of a modern look. As you can tell by the price though they are not cheap

You're right, they're not cheap. I've used them and you still need to make fronts and backs. Having multiple/different materials in the same drawer looks cheap. Looks like a drawer made from whatever was laying around. IMO, an all wood or hardwood plywood drawer looks best.
.

[chopnhack]

I have not but I know that one of the kitchen guys I know says that they slap together pretty easy and some people prefer them on high end kitchens - i guess more of a modern look. As you can tell by the price though they are not cheap

[khf314]

BTW, has anyone tried using something like this for drawers? http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...50,43298,43315 Just wondering.......

[chopnhack]

Glad to see I'm not the only one!

Thanks for the replies. I was thinking of maybe using the lock rabbet joint. I think cabman's simpler joint might be in order though -- I need to finish this project while my nerves are still in order

Thanks all

[JimD]

I don't try anything more complicated than a dado in plywood other than baltic birch. Even it chips out worse than solid wood but if you are careful, you can probably cut a lock miter in baltic birch. I am normally cutting dovetails for drawers.

Jim

[rcp612]

I have had similar issues with BORG ply. I just wont use it anymore except for the most basic non critical projects.

I second that!!
Borg "cabinet grade" birch was on sale a while back and looked really good in the store. Got it home, it's flat and square,,,,until after the cuts were made. The next day when assembly was going to start, I couldn't find a flat piece, except for the other sheet that I hadn't cut yet.
I contribute this phenominum to the fact that I found over-lapping plys on the edges where I cut. And I think that also contributes to the fact that the thickness varies not only from sheet to sheet, but, within the same sheet.
Unlike poolhound, I won't use it for anything,,,,,not even concrete forms.

[cabinetman]

A rabbet joint works well every time for plywood drawer sides. With the front and back set into a rabbet in the sides with glue, fasteners can be shot through the front, which would be covered by a false front if designed that way, and the back of the drawer won't be seen. For shop drawers or utility drawers, fasteners can be shot through the sides. With no fasteners and just glue and clamps, it's still a good strong joint.
.

.

[poolhound]

I have had similar issues with BORG ply. I just wont use it anymore except for the most basic non critical projects.

[jackellis]

Thanks for the warning. I'm about to start building some shop drawers using a drawer lock bit like the MLCS version http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_door.html#drawer_lock_bits_anchor.

I guess that's going to take up most of tomorrow.

[steve-norrell]

I have had good results using lock miter bits on solid wood (oak. pine, poplar) and MDF, but unpredictable results using Borg plywood. I don't even try with plywood any more. MLCS has on on-line instructional video that could be helpful at:

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...r_video_anchor

You are right that it takes time to setup a lock miter bit, but it is really worth it in the end if the joint is going to be exposed. I also recommend using a "set-up" block and then be prepared to do several test runs before you get it just right.

Regards, Steve

[drumpriest]

Your rant mirrors my experience with the lock miter. I think it's easier to just cut dovetails, to be honest. I've lately been doing mortise and loose tenon drawer joints for my shop drawers, holds up great, fairly easy to do (domino) and does not matter what the ply thickness is. Doweling would work just as well.

[chopnhack]

yes this is about a tool......its a torture device known as a lock miter bit. This 1/2" shank router bit is known to destroy many a test board, hours of your day and your sense of woodworking. Use it at your own peril.



I spent the better part, between 3 rain episodes, of my entire work day trying to zero in on the perfect lock miter joint. Bear in mind, my work day is a couple of hours around the small one's sleep schedule since my workspace and his nap space are adjoining. Between setting up my router station which I wheel outside for better lighting and ventilation and breaking it down and running inside everytime it rained I was getting the impression that I should just give up. After the 15th test cut and adjustment I realized why I was chasing my tail.......the **** cheap a$$ birch "cabinet grade" - scoff -Borg plywood is dimensionally(thinner/thicker) different between sheets! So now instead of being able to have a nice miter with no ply end grain I have to come up with another assembly method to which I will have to attach a false front to hide the plywood. Nothing like adding a step and expense to a project. Later that day, to really end it all, I was finishing the dados on the router table for the plywood bottoms of my drawers and with only 3 sides left to groove my undersized plywood bit snapped off.

I am really looking forward to my next time in the shop where I have to try and match the routed dado's using my table saw and the stock blade that should be fun.

After spending an entire shop day finishing with clear lacquer both sides of the sheets I ended up ripping down to the drawer parts I noticed that the plywood decided to change shape and become somewhat wavy

Ever have one of those projects that starts off nice enough and goes downhill from there?

End of rant.

....the wood won this time