hand jointer

[jussi]

Just saw a hand (manual) jointer for $265. Just curious. What is the benefit of one of these when one could get a power jointer.

[Russianwolf]

Do you mean a Jointer plane as in a Stanley #7 handplane, or a hand planer as in a Ryobi 3" hand planer (still powered)?

If you are talking about the handplane, the benefits include:

1)No noisy motor so no need for ear protection.
2)Very little dust (about as close to none as you can get), as you are making very nice cuts when it is tuned properly.
3)Chances of being severly injured by a handplane are very low, unless you throw them around the shop in fits of rage.
4) you can get perfect glue joints very easily by clamping the two board side by side with the edges to be jointed up and both of their "top" faces point in opposite directions. Run the jointer along the joint and when you are done the angles will be perfectly complimentary and perfect for glueup. This is extremely difficult to do on a power jointer. (Note, the angle don't have to be perfect 90's to the face, as long as the some of the angles is 180)
5) at $265 I'm betting you are looking at the Lee Vally jointer or maybe a Lie Neilson. Both very nice tools. But you can get a very dependable vintage Staley # 7 or #8 for about $50-70 that will proform admirable also.
6) Other woodworkers will start to think you are really cool as you actually know how to use a tool that is becomeing a dying art.
7) Less mess on the floor. And the mess that is produced is likely to be much easier to clean up.

That what I can think of off the top of my head.

[jussi]

No I meant a jointer plane. Yes I was looking a the LV jointer. I was just curious about them as for about $100 more you could get a Ridgid (significantly less if you got it used). On the other hand this might do really well on long boards that a 6" jointer might have a harder time with. And there's no doubt how cool looking they are.

Thanks for the explanation

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,41182,48944

[Russianwolf]

remember thqat the 6" number in a jointer isn't the part that makes longer boards easier, it's the bed lengths. The longer the beds, the easier it is to work on longer boards. For power jointers, the longer the bed, the better, buy the longest you can afford.

For handplanes, the length is important, but too much length can make it harder to handle. That's why jointer planes are usually about 22-24 inches long. You might find some wooden jointer planes that are in the 30" range but, again, that's about as long as they get. Anything more, and they get too heavy to use effectively, but then again you aren't using the plane to support the board as you are on the power jointer (usually, you'll clamp the board to your workbench to use the handplane) so you don't need it to be as long as you want a jointer bed to be.

At some point I will likely start picking up some of the Lee Valley planes, but for now I buying old stanley bailey planes. Theses are what the Lee Valley tools are based off of and can work as flawlessly with a little tuning. The LV planes do knock the Stanley out of the park when it come to looks though don't they.

The Bevel up planes from LV that you linked to also have a nice blade selection that interchanges with their other Bevel up planes. So that is a nice feature too.

[eddy merckx]

1)No noisy motor so no need for ear protection.
2)Very little dust (about as close to none as you can get), as you are making very nice cuts when it is tuned properly.
3)Chances of being severly injured by a handplane are very low, unless you throw them around the shop in fits of rage.
4) you can get perfect glue joints very easily by clamping the two board side by side with the edges to be jointed up and both of their "top" faces point in opposite directions. Run the jointer along the joint and when you are done the angles will be perfectly complimentary and perfect for glueup. This is extremely difficult to do on a power jointer. (Note, the angle don't have to be perfect 90's to the face, as long as the some of the angles is 180)
5) at $265 I'm betting you are looking at the Lee Vally jointer or maybe a Lie Neilson. Both very nice tools. But you can get a very dependable vintage Staley # 7 or #8 for about $50-70 that will proform admirable also.
6) Other woodworkers will start to think you are really cool as you actually know how to use a tool that is becomeing a dying art.
7) Less mess on the floor. And the mess that is produced is likely to be much easier to clean up.

8.Try to flatten a table top with a power jointer.


Eddy

[jackellis]

Get a Stanley and learn how to use it. I'm amazed at how satisfying it is to be able to shape wood using hand tools instead of the machines.

[Russianwolf]

Get a Stanley and learn how to use it. I'm amazed at how satisfying it is to be able to shape wood using hand tools instead of the machines.

Yeah, I think I've spent about $120 so far in the past couple weeks. There is a #5 (Jack Plane) and #12 (scrapper plane) in my shop now and a #7 (joiinter plane) on the way. Three planes that will do several jobs for less than half of what one of the Lee Valley's will run you.

I've been reading tons of material on them in preparation to start down this path. What many recommend for a first plane is a Jack plane as it's small enough to be used to smooth boards and long enough to joint with. Shorter planes will make better smoothers and longer one will make better jointers, but it's the "Jack of all trades" if you will.

I also plane to grind an extra blade to use as a scrub blade in the #5 for doing the preliminary work on rough cut boards.

[dtam]

With a jointer plane, you can flatten the face of boards wider than your power jointer can handle, usually only 6". That's the main reason why I'm trying to get a jointer plane even though I already have a Craftsman jointer. From checking ebay the past several months, I think a pre-WW2, type10-15 (most desirable from what I hear) Stanley #7 will cost at least $80 after shipping. Add another $100 for sharpening supplies (waterstones, sharpening jig, sandpaper, etc), and another $50 for a Hock replacement blade, and your rusty old jointer plane will cost as much if not more than a used stationary power jointer.

I have thought about getting the Lee Valley jointer plane too, but just can't bring myself to spend that kind of money on a hand tool, especially when several of my new stationary power tools (jointer, 2 bandsaws) combined cost less than that. Does anyone know why Lee Valley planes cost so much when they are mass produced? Any why does Lie Nielsen's #7 cost $400?

[jackellis]

Does anyone know why Lee Valley planes cost so much when they are mass produced? Any why does Lie Nielsen's #7 cost $400?

Probably several. First, it appears the newer planes use different materials. Second, they appear to be largely machined rather than largely cast. Third, they can be used out of the box, which means more skilled manual labor is employed to sharpen and adjust them at the factory. Finally, the makers are asking what they think the market will bear. There are lots of folks who will gladly pay those hefty prices for tools that look good, feel good and perform well. I have a BT and a Jet cabinet saw. Didn't really need the Jet but I don't have to work around the saw quite as much as I did with the BT (which I still use for some tasks).

I'd prefer to learn on my well-used collection of old planes, but someday I'll probably own a few of the nicer ones too.

[just started]

With a jointer plane, you can flatten the face of boards wider than your power jointer can handle, usually only 6". That's the main reason why I'm trying to get a jointer plane even though I already have a Craftsman jointer. From checking ebay the past several months, I think a pre-WW2, type10-15 (most desirable from what I hear) Stanley #7 will cost at least $80 after shipping. Add another $100 for sharpening supplies (waterstones, sharpening jig, sandpaper, etc), and another $50 for a Hock replacement blade, and your rusty old jointer plane will cost as much if not more than a used stationary power jointer.

I have thought about getting the Lee Valley jointer plane too, but just can't bring myself to spend that kind of money on a hand tool, especially when several of my new stationary power tools (jointer, 2 bandsaws) combined cost less than that. Does anyone know why Lee Valley planes cost so much when they are mass produced? Any why does Lie Nielsen's #7 cost $400?

When you add up all the charges for the stuff you have to add for your ebay find, and then add in the value of the hours it will take you to clean, flatten, sharpen and tune it, you may find that the Lee Valley is no more, and maybe less, and all you have to do is take it out of the box and start using it.

[mleichtle]

You also need a desent work bench for a hand plane to work.

[dkerfoot]

Has anyone tried the Anant Kamal (Premium) line of planes? They sound like they may be a happy medium of price vs. performance:

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/i...arch=GO&Page=1

[Russianwolf]

When you add up all the charges for the stuff you have to add for your ebay find, and then add in the value of the hours it will take you to clean, flatten, sharpen and tune it, you may find that the Lee Valley is no more, and maybe less, and all you have to do is take it out of the box and start using it.

But what happens when your nice new Lie Neilson has dulled down (you know, by the end of the first day)and you have to learn how to sharpen, retune and readjust everything that was done at the factory for you?

Then you will be spending the same money and learning the same things. So how much did you actually save?

recommended reading on plane www.rexmill.com and the Blood & Gore (google it) site.

[Russianwolf]

You also need a desent work bench for a hand plane to work.

Which you should have in either case. Even if it's nothing but an "assembly table". You can use various ways of holding the board without having a vice.

[milanuk]

But what happens when your nice new Lie Neilson has dulled down (you know, by the end of the first day)and you have to learn how to sharpen, retune and readjust everything that was done at the factory for you?

There's a whole world of difference between re-sharpening a high quality blade and resetting it in the plane, and having to fiddle-fart around trying to fettle a plane with an uneven sole, plus all the hinky tricks people come up with for filing the bed to try and get it smooth and flat... oh, and the backlash common in a lot of Stanley planes - as in all the old fixer-uppers I have sitting under my bench.

Or you can get a LV or LN and go to town. From what I hear, the odds of having to fettle one to get it straight and true pretty much approach zero out of the box. Add in that the LN is based off the highly prized Bedrock series of Stanley planes, vs. the more common Bailey style... and I'd say you have some solid ground for justifying a good plane to start with. Yes, there is something to be said for learning all the traditional tricks of the trade... but most of them ain't repeatable amongst polite company!

The more I think on it, I believe I will be putting my mish-mash collection of pieces and parts planes up for sale in the not-so-distant future. I'm tired of fussing with them - I'd rather be working and doing something constructive!

YMMV,

Monte