Craftsman 21829 Owners/Users- Your opinions wanted!

[Gator95]

I'm on the fence about getting this vs. a more 'traditional' table saw. Posted over at woodnet and got opinions, but didn't hear from anyone who actually has used this saw. Some questions for you that I'd really appreciate input on are below. Feel free to respond by PM rather than open posting if you'd rather.

1) Overall, do you like the saw and are you happy you bought this rather than other saws you were considering at the time? If you've used the saw and moved on to another saw, what was the main reason?

2) In use, how stable is the mobile base? What is the comfortable window of wood size to be cutting, assuming a solo operator, simple tables & sawhorses for in/outfeed support, and plenty of room on all sides? How long a board of 4/4 S3S 6-10" wide hardwood do you feel comfortable ripping? What range of wood dimensions and weights are you comfortable crosscutting with the SMT?

3) When set up with everything attached and aligned, how easily can the saw be moved on the stand wheels to repositioned within the workspace? Do you find that you have to adjust the rail or SMT alignment each time you move the saw within your workspace?

4) When the saw is folded up to set aside, and then unfolded again in a few days after moving back to the center of the garage, do you need to realign the SMT and/or the rails each time?

5) Accessory router table functionality: Do you use the router accessory table regularly? Is it's level of functionality at least on par with the typical sub-$100 beginning router table? What is the largest workpiece you'd feel comfortable working with using this accessory table while mounted to the rails? (for example, putting a simple roundover edge on a 6'x6"x1" board for a shelf vs. cutting a 1/2" dado in a 15"x6"x1/2" drawer sidepanel, etc...)

6) How hard is it to remove the stock blade guard assembly, and the put back on again? Do you generally cut with the blade guard assembly in place or not- i.e. is it such a PITA that you take the whole thing off and lose it, or is it pretty easy to use and get used to? (I know... shark guard... but trying to figure out how well the stock equipment functions).

I'll probably have more questions later and follow up. Another post thread is a little bit about myself by way of introduction to the forum- didn't want this post to be any longer than it already is. Thanks in advance!

-Mike

[Gator95]

... a bit more about me, and why I'm asking all these questions.

I'm a beginning woodworker in the Atlanta area, and have lurked here for a little while. I've done the usual home fix-it stuff with a 6pc. 18V cordless kit (Ryobi) that is surprising serviceable. Got into more detailed woodwork- where I can't hide mistakes with caulk- a few months ago when my wife wanted a new fireplace mantel & surround. We went around to the usual specialty shops and I said to her "heck, why should we spend $600 on this, I can build this for about $100". She took me up on the challenge.

Found out that a friend of mine had a nice Delta hybrid saw and worked with him to get the larger pieces cut. Then I put it together and installed on the fireplace it over the next couple weeks, and bought a DeWalt 10" CMS on sale at the Orange Giant to do the trimwork. It wound up looking great and now I'm looking forward to other projects. Have built some little things around the house with my cordless set, and figured out just how much you can do with a good Miter saw, cordless JigSaw & Circular Saw, an edge guide, and lots of patience. But it's just getting to where a Table Saw is pretty much necessary if I want to enjoy the hobby, and I don't want to just run over to my buddies house every time I get the idea for a project- unless it is a task that would take 2 people anyways like ripping a crapload of long, thick hardwood. He's a great guy- but I like the idea of having my own shop to work in at my own pace.

I've been working out of my garage, and being able to roll the saw out to either the edge of the garage pad or out the door is something that I'd like. Could probably do with any saw and a rolling stand, but the built-in stand of the 21829 is a plus- one less thing to buy. I've got no dust control other than a shopvac, and would rather just do the cuts in the driveway or the edge of the garage and blow the sawdust out with my blower. I'm more comfortable working sheetgoods with my little circular saw, so ability to break down a 4x8 sheet of plywood is not an issue with table saw selection- I don't need a cabinet saw and don't have 220v in the garage anyways.

I've pretty much narrowed down to two saws, both Craftsman. The 21829 that I just asked about and the 22114 zipcode saw. Give the frequency of sales, the actual price difference between them is about $200ish. The difference is also probably larger than just the price difference, because I'd need to buy a separate router table if I went the traditional table saw route, as well as a mobile base and crosscut sled like the Rockler one with the miter adjustment. One thing I learned working with my friends Delta is that a miter gauge in a miter slot is a fair crosscutting instrument at best. I'd planned on using his saw to clean up the edges in some of my work that I'd cut to rough length with a circular saw- but gave up after a few cuts and just did them back at home with my Jigsaw and a straight edge. The SMT on the 21829 (as well as the BT3 series) is really one of the key things that is even making me consider the 21829 instead of the 22114- which is why I want to know the limits of its function. I do not want to buy a sliding CMS (or worse yet a RAS ) just for crosscuts.

Money is a factor, but not the determining one. I could pay for either saw, even with the add-ons that I'd need for the 22114. More a question of if paying more will really get me much more ability to do what I want to do, or if the 22114 would be more enjoyable to use than the 21829. Also, the footprint of the 21829 when folded up is an advantage vs. the 22114- which is why I asked about how much adjustment is needed after folding and unfolding the saw. Overall though, regardless of price, I don't want to buy a saw I'm not going to enjoy using in two years.

For future projects in the works, I'll be making a desk for my office, a couple of drop-front secretaries, misc. bookshelves and closet storage systems, and end tables over the next year. Nothing too ornate, just clean lines and functional.

Anyways, that's my story.

-Mike

[JR]

Welcome to the forum, Mike. Whichever way you go, stick around here. It's a great place to talk woodworking.

I don't have a 21829, so I'll let others respond to your query. I just wanted to point out that you've posed some excellent questions, well worth knowing the answers when making a TS choice.

Good Luck!
JR

[kevincan]

Mike I will try to answer some of your questions. I have had the Craftsman 21829 for about 1 1/2 yrs now.

1. I am happy with the TS and do not have any plans to move on to something else.
2. For ripping longer lengths I use a roller stand for support. I plan to add a outfeed table in the future. Crosscutting with the SMT I don't think I have done anything longer than 6'.
3. & 4. Set up is pretty easy - I have not found a need to do any adjustments. I do check setup after moving it. I find that most of the time I do not fold up the saw to move it. I pick up the end that does not have wheels and then move it that way.
5. I built a new fence for the router table that attaches to the TS fence. I don't think you will find much use for the router parts that they give you.
6. The stock blade guard is easy to remove - just 2 bolts. I have the guard on all the time (except dados). You can change blades w/o taking it off.

Hope this helps.

Kevin

[jon_ramp]

I have one, though I can't compare it to another saw or router table as this is the only system I have ever used. I have used it maybe 8 times in the year I have had it. I only had to make minor alignment adjustments out of the box. It is still in alignment even though it has been folded up and shoved up against the wall after each use. 4-5 times it has been brought outside from the basement up a flight of steps when it is in it’s folded up hand truck mode. I can do it easily by myself. It folds or unfolds in 5 sec. The sliding miter table goes on and off in seconds as well, but you will find that if you are carefull it does not have to come off to fold it up. It is not difficult to move while set up either, just make sure you grab it by the base and not the fence rails to move it.

The blade guard is not difficult to remove, though for convenience I do plan to at some point purchase a used Shark Guard.

I will eventually build an attachment to add to the saw fence to use with the router as the one that comes with the router kit is poor. For the few times I have use it, I just clamped a board to the table. I used a piece of Plexiglas to make a base to mount a DeWalt router to the table. While I have not yet had any problems the Plexiglas setup, I've since been told that polycarbonate is better as Plexiglas can shatter. My BIL was going to borrow the whole system to do some router work, but after seeing it, he decided to remove the router table from the rails and clamp it in a B&D workmate and it worked fine.

I have no regrets buying this saw. Having no dust collecting system beyond a shop vac, I like the ability to take it up the steps out of the basement and outdoors when the weather permits. The garage is not an option for me.

[Knottscott]

Hi Mike - Just wanted to let you know that the 22114 is on sale to Craftsman Club members for $612 right now. Also wanted to let you know that it's really easy to build your own router table extension, so you really don't need to buy one....I've built a couple over the years.

[rjwaldren]

1) Very happy with the saw, It very accurate, can't beat it for the price.

2) The base is very stable, on concrete I've never been concerned with the possibility of tipping. The base has never been the reason for poor cuts, I get the trophy on that one.

3) Level the base and align the saw at the beginning and you can do anything you want after that. I shuffle my garage often and fold the saw. I check the alignment before use but rarely need to adjust it.

4) See above, check it occasionally and ensure the base is leveled and it's pretty reliable. If you throwing it in the back of a truck and moving it from site to site, it may be a different story.

5) The accessory table is fine for small stuff, but it's small and the included fence accessories are worthless (except as parts for jigs). If you use it make a fence that saddled the rip fence or something. Long board are difficult due the limited surface. Most would be happier with a dedicated router table.

6) The stock guard works okay but I did cut the kickback pawls off. They are the only pieces of this saw that have ever drawn blood and tend to mar up wood as they rake across it. Blade changes are easy, 3 screws and an arbor nut.


If money/space wasn't an issue I would have gone larger, mainly for the table space and miter slots. Table extensions with miter slots are easy enough to add, but there is something to be said for having then part of the machine. You won't find a SMT without spending alot of money though.

With outfeed support I don't see much of a limit to the ripping abilities, though I would suggest extending the fence on the infeed side and finger boards. I tend to rough cut my components out of sheets with a circular saw before moving to the TS, but thats because I don't have a helper nearby. The rails, accy table and SMT can be moved around to support long boards on crosscuts.

Once word of caution, it's very easy to get caught up in "accessorizing" the saw and never get to the projects you bought it for in the first place.

[cwithboat]

I have had the 21829 for about 7 weeks. It is so superior to my previous saw and router table that I am in heaven.
The quote from above is valid:
Once word of caution, it's very easy to get caught up in "accessorizing" the saw and never get to the projects you bought it for in the first place.
I do get caught up in building jigs because, with a supply of T-nuts, it is so easy. I did buy an extra accessory table to increase work space. The router table is so much nicer than my previous set up that I have few complaints, but so far I have only done small jobs on it.
If you can wait for the right time you can get a good deal. I bought mine for $349 on sale + Craftsmen's club discount. At this price, if you find you don't care for the saw, you won't lose much if you sell it.

[RAV2]

I've had my 21829 for about a year + now. I sold my 10" - 20 + year old Craftsman full size table saw to diffray the cost of this unit. I also sold my stand alone router table. The day I sold my table saw, it took over an hour to disassemble and reassemble my table saw when I moved it to the garage for the sale. I was having second thoughts about selling the old saw (dad's saw) but after the hour plus to move the old one, I was happy for my decision.

I have a router permanently attached to the saw and keep a round over bit in the chuck. I like the convenience of this set up. I hung a bag (Craftsman) from the stand and keep all of my accessory parts attached to the saw. I can break down in a couple of minutes and move anywhere I want.

I've only done a few projects (with the original blade) but am pleased with my choice. I squared up some 4X rough stock - taking my time with the feeding speed and using the vacuum and was pleased with the results. Picked up a cheap outfeed roller to supplement my system. Installed the dual miter slot table to get back some conventionality to the saw for quick an dirty cuts (also have a SCMS from Harbor Freight on the Ryobi MSUV).

As I mature and learn from my dad's past tool choices, I am choosing more quality portable tools.

I'm generally a very safe person but due to my "old school training" do not use the blade guard.

I think you will be happy if you make this choice.

[LinuxRandal]

I have a BT not the Craftsman, but my previous saw was a Delta contractor that was loaned out and the house it was in caught fire.

I saw your post over there, you mentioned it didn't look stable the way it was setup at Sears. They don't setup properly their power tools. This is due both in part to space (can't have the SMT sticking out in peoples way) and their help is told to do it quickly because here is their other list of tasks.

This was designed with another goal. To get accurate cuts, in a lightweight (now portable with the stand) body, from a country where cast iron is a lot more expensive (Hank, chime in on this one).
There are several members here who have gone to a cabinet/contractor saw of some kind. Most of what I remember is due to regularly cutting thicker and harder material (8/4 maple for example). The BT is fine for that for occasional use, but if you KNOW you what to use heavier material to begin with, you should examine other saws.

Me, I went another way. I have to help other family members with projects, and need more portability more then my saw will allow. I bought a guided circular saw system, originally for plywood, and it was expanded to where my tablesaw sits in the shop and collects dust. I kept it in case I do need to cut something thicker than I can currently, but my projects, still currently don't need that.

[Andrew Benedetto]

I had a sears 70's belt Contractor TS that I bought new, bought a BT3K[still have it], TS3650 Ridgid which got returned, many issues and basically same design as the 70's sears saw, 22124 CM[great saw if on sale], and a Unisaw. I might sell the 22124 but I will keep the BT for light work and I have a Ridgid mobile stand if I need to go to a job site with it but that would be rare as I have a JS TS too, an older CM Pro still made by Hitachi.
The BT design is OK for lighter precision work, not running the motor for long periods because of the non induction motor, that is a real weak link you can not work around. The saw's top is also small, and dust is a real killer to the motor and internal mechanics.
You almost never hear of anyone burning up an induction motor[my sears saw is still in use after 35 years, same motor, I sold it to a friend] on a TS but the BT, it is a common problem, a hard replacement job compared to a conventional TS and expensive in comparison to the saw's price and no practical way to improve the motor.
I personally would buy a Hybrid saw if you can afford it and if you have the space. I do not like any contractor TS's design with the motor exposed. The Unisaw and even the 22124 are just better saws in all respects except cost, but look how long that sears saw is lasting, I sold it for about what I paid after 25 years of use. I use that saw to build even on job sites befor thay had job site type saws.
Ryobi could have made some improvements to the BT and made it a great saw but they seem to not be interested in doing that. I am surprised that sears still sells that BT type saw.
I would buy a new Bosch TS with the new rifing knife and new really good guard they have ,if I need portable. The soft start is so much better on a universal motor too, no jump starts
The Bt does not do well as a job site saw in that it can go out of adjustment or be damaged in a pickup's bed bouncing around.
Used is also a go way to go, CL and forums too.

[Sawatzky]

Others have said most of what can be said. I have the BT, not the Craftsman, and have had good luck. I buy my hardwood ususally in 12 foot lengths, and with a roller stand in front get great results ripping wood that long. I also rip 4x8 sheets of plywood all the time. It will be much easier now that I have added extension rails and a removable table extension on the left of the saw. I have never had a power issues as I run my saw on a dedicated 20 amp circuit. Most of the settings stay the way I adjust them, but I have had to fiddle a lot with the SMT. It does work as it is supposed to, but it just seems to wiggle more than I would like. All in all I like the saw and have built some pretty big projects with it. It does have its limitations, such as table size and ruggedness, but you cannot find a better saw for the money. I want to upgrade to a cast iron saw some day, but this saw keeps doing what I need out of a table saw.

[180x]

I've had the "BT clone" for more than a year now and I'm pretty satisfied. I must qualify my statements with this is the first table saw I've owned (and used probably). I decided on the saw mainly from the comments and recommendations from members of this forum. I liked the way it stored away and came with a router table, although I built a dedicated table and never used the one on the saw. I did add the Shark Guard (highly recommended), miter slots, and an extension table (for sheet goods). I'm using Freud thin kerf blades which work out really well. I'm happy with the choice, especially for the price.

But I reiterate, this saw is my only point of reference.

[Bill in Buena Park]

I bought the 21829 a little over a half year ago after careful consideration - I wanted a TS that could cut a door down, rip whole sheets of plywood and 3/4in oak stock, and crosscut with great accuracy - all that and stow neatly into the corner of my work area. My 21829 has done all these things for me - I couldn't have asked for a better saw.

I use roller stands for infeed / outfeed / tableside support, I like the bladeguard (but am considering removing the springs from the prawls), and use a shopvac as a chip collector (lets be honest, there's no DC with a shopvac.)

The saw is folded and stowed after every use, which has no impact on the rails or other alignment that I've noticed. It came out of the box with little need for adjustment, and I mounted my CM router in the accessory table - then bought a second accessory table just to add more table surface when I make wide right-hand cuts (the router base prevents the table from clearing the saw case.)

I too ditched the router kit fences and produced my own, with better chip collection than the kit's plastic tube. I haven't ripped anything thicker than 2" of oak stock on it, but it did a repectable job in my opinion without noticeable bogging down.

I researched and could not justify a more "industrial" type TS, even though many had bigger tables - this one suits my needs best for its price class.

[jackd942]

21829

I bought a 21829 before Christmas when they were marked down $100. I had looked at them when they were not on sale and had decided to go with a Delta contractor saw. When it went on sale, I called the store and picked it up. My grandfather and uncle both have had 20+ yr old Craftsman saws that I have used extensively and my uncle currently has a unisaw that I have used some. To be honest, I am still trying to get used to the 21829. It definitely does the job and some days I wake up happy knowing that I have it but some days I have that feeling in my stomach like I should have bought the Delta. I think if I ever get around to making some extension tables and some jigs for it I will be a lot happier. The one thing I can say with absolute certainty is to take off the stock blade and put it on the wall to save for cutting junk. Go and get a WWII or one of the Frued's talked about in other posts. I saw a review in Wood Magazine and wound up buying a Craftsman blade (#32808) and it made a night and day difference in the way the saw cut. That definitely made me more comfortable with the saw.

--Jack