Best TS on sale?

[gatordogs2]

Since Amazon has good prices and free shipping on TS's, which TS Bargain would be best?

I have a 36" Bies Fence from Lowes ($80) to add to a TS. My max budget is $400 total.

[Knottscott]

This time we're talking about two full size cast iron saws that both have comparable size, mass, reliability, motor types, drives, and power.

The Biese fence is superior IMHO...most will feel the same way with little argument, but that doesn't mean YOU will like it better. The Jet fence is functional, lighter, less robust, has lower resale, etc.

The cast iron wings on the Delta are typically preferable too. I like CI wings alot, but they do little for actual performance...they're a "nice to have" item.

The Jet is a hybrid with an internal motor, which saves space, improves dust collection, has a shorter serpentine drive belt, and happens to have a very nice one piece cast blade shroud connecting the trunnions, which is a more elegant solution to the connecting rods used on the Delta. Design advantage to the Jet.

Both have built in mobile bases. So it boils down to what you're willing to give up for the benefits of a hybrid design, which in this case is the "bolt ons" - a Biese fence and CI wings. I'd favor the Delta given those choices...however....CI wings and the Biese fence can be added to the Jet for additional cost that can be somewhat offset by selling the Jet fence and steel wings. You'll never be able to gain the design advantage of tucking the Delta motor inside the cabinet, so that motor location becomes a way of life. The Jet can "grow" a bit, the Delta has less opportunity to do so. The Delta's offers more goodies now, while the Jet has some untapped potential. Which has more appeal to YOU? Will you have some extra cash down the road to upgrade the Jet? (set some $ aside for a blade or two now!)

p.s. I voted Delta in your poll, but thought the other options were worth some thought, and I'm honestly wrestling with which one I'd go with...typical wisdom says "blade, fence, miter gauge, and setup" have the most impact on the end performance, but the basic Jet design is more refined.

[cgallery]

Dustmight's summary is spot-on. I picked the Jet because you can upgrade it later with a nicer fence and CI wings (or a router extension). But you can't upgrade the Delta to a hybrid. And I like hybrids.

[gatordogs2]

Stupid newbie question - what do you mean by a hybrid TS? And why are they advantagous?

Also, I can see any photos of the Delta's motor in the back. How far out does it stick?

[Knottscott]

Stupid newbie question - what do you mean by a hybrid TS? And why are they advantagous?

Also, I can see any photos of the Delta's motor in the back. How far out does it stick?

If you took the same motor from the Delta and stuffed it inside the enclosure you'd essentially have a hybrid. The outboard motors cause of slew of nuisances that people dealt with for over 50 years...enter the hybrid to answer many of those issues.

Pros of the hybrid:
- better DC
- smaller footprint
- shorter drive belt (better power transfer and lower vibration)
- no "lifting" issues with the motor when beveled (it's easy to forget what's in the path of an outboard motor and pickup a workbench or hit something and knock the blade and fence alignment off...DAMHIKT! )

Cons of the hybrid design:
- sometimes higher cost? (not this time...)

Pros of the contractor saw design over the hybrid design:
- zip... (fence and wings in this case, which are add ons, but from a design perspective....0 advantage for an outboard motor unless you need to remove the motor frequently, which is why it was originally designed that way)

Delta motor:



...prolly time to take a deep breath at this point! Either saw will serve you quite well for decades with minimal maintenance. Which means more to you...Biese fence/cast iron wings, or the advantages of the Jet's basic design?

[cgallery]

The only thing I'll add regarding hybrid/contractor is that hybrids have reportedly been easier to keep properly aligned. The contractor saws suffer a little in this department due to the uneven torque the weight of the motor applies to the trunions when you set the blade to an angle. This is a result of the motor sticking out the back of the saw.

In practice, I don't think it has been that much of a problem, but it is another + in the hybrid column.

[gatordogs2]

Great, in a matter of a day I went from possibly ordering the Craftsman 21829 to the Delta 36-979 and now to the Jet 708100.

As far as what's important to me, I just want the best bang for my buck, since I don't know much.

What's a inexperienced woodman to do...too many choices and not enough knowledge. Kinda like musical chairs with Table Saws.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Great, in a matter of a day I went from possibly ordering the Craftsman 21829 to the Delta 36-979 and now to the Jet 708100.

Ummm, Look at poll results. Why have you switched to Jet?

IMHO the term "hybrid" is up in the air. Other than having an interior motor the Jet doesnt offer any traditional hybrid advantages. Cabinet does not go to floor, trunnions are still table mounted, etc.

The Jet fence flat out STINKS. The stamped steel wings STINK. It only weighs 220 lbs! Heck the Beise fence weighs more that that! (kidding of course). Why does weight matter? Cause mass rules. Lower vibration. Cast iron wings on Delta are easier to set up. THey take a beating. THey don't have paint that chips and wears off the table top. The Delta weighs
substanially more.

The Delta is the hands down winner. Period. (how strong am I coming on here? LOL!)

[gatordogs2]

Thanks for the good tips Jeffrey. Seems like the best advantage of the Jet is the motor being internal. But most like the Delta.

Delta is winning this race.

Another newbie Q - I also want to buy a router. Can I put a router on this table with the Bies fence as well (so I don't have to have another table)?

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Thanks for the good tips Jeffrey. Seems like the best advantage of the Jet is the motor being internal. But most like the Delta.

Delta is winning this race.

Another newbie Q - I also want to buy a router. Can I put a router on this table with the Bies fence as well (so I don't have to have another table)?

I *believe* the Bies fence deal comes with the laminate table normally installed to the right of the table. (pretty sure that is the standard package). How you install router is up to you. You can simple drill a hole and bolt a router into the table, you can route an opening to install a removable router plate (probably the minimum you would want to do) or you can put of lift in the newly formed opening.

The table that comes with the Beis is known to be of marginal quality out of the box. The laminate material they use is decent. The framing to support the table is not so much so. I suggest adding to the framing to make sure it does not sag, etc if you stick a router in the Bies table.

Note: You are trying to do a lot at once. Compare saws, figure out router tables, etc. Ya, you want to get it right but at the same time don't over complicate the whole thing. Comparing tools is spreadsheets is a clear sign of a future problem . . . trust me . Basically the Jet or Delta could have some form of RT attached to it each presenting its own issues. These are things we work around.

[cgallery]

Ummm, Look at poll results. Why have you switched to Jet?

IMHO the term "hybrid" is up in the air. Other than having an interior motor the Jet doesnt offer any traditional hybrid advantages. Cabinet does not go to floor, trunnions are still table mounted, etc.

The Jet fence flat out STINKS. The stamped steel wings STINK. It only weighs 220 lbs! Heck the Beise fence weighs more that that! (kidding of course). Why does weight matter? Cause mass rules. Lower vibration. Cast iron wings on Delta are easier to set up. THey take a beating. THey don't have paint that chips and wears off the table top. The Delta weighs
substanially more.

The Delta is the hands down winner. Period. (how strong am I coming on here? LOL!)

I donno, I still see lots of complaints at Sawmillcreek and Woodnet from guys that can't get their contractor saws aligned. And more complaints still from people that can't keep them aligned. So you've got to add the cost of Pals and some four letter words to the Delta to make the comparison fair.

And the Jet has a nice blade-shroud w/ built-in dust collection port.

[LarryG]

Also, I can see any photos of the Delta's motor in the back. How far out does it stick?

Can't provide an answer for this specific model but, ballpark, a contractor's saw requires ~42" to ~48" of front-to-back floor space, including the front fence rail and the motor out back.

[dkerfoot]

I went with the Craftsman 21829 - easy choice - unless you need to be hauling it around from worksite to worksite.

I won't go into all the wonderfulness of the BT3 line, that has been covered better than I ever could. But the 21829 folding platform is amazingly well-designed. I have been looking at the Delta folding base for Miter saws (for my miter saw of course) and am considering paying $169 for it, even though it doesn't work 1/2 as well as what is included with the 21829.

The combination is a thing of rare and sublime beauty. If I had to replace it and the price had risen to over $500, it would still be the saw I would buy.

At $330, it is an absolute steal.

[ragswl4]

Can't provide an answer for this specific model but, ballpark, a contractor's saw requires ~42" to ~48" of front-to-back floor space, including the front fence rail and the motor out back.

While I don't own a contractor's saw I really don't see where the motor out the back is an issue for space. As soon as you need to rip a board that's over 3 ft long you will need that much space behind the saw anyway. It its an issue at all I would think the motor position detracts from the dust collection efficiency.

On my worst day, I wouldn't go against a 69% poll result. Especially from the folks on this forum.

[Knottscott]

While I don't own a contractor's saw I really don't see where the motor out the back is an issue for space. As soon as you need to rip a board that's over 3 ft long you will need that much space behind the saw anyway. It its an issue at all I would think the motor position detracts from the dust collection efficiency.

On my worst day, I wouldn't go against a 69% poll result. Especially from the folks on this forum.

Hi Rags! I had a nice contractor saw for a couple of years. I'd agree that the space issue isn't always a huge factor, and could be a non-factor depending on your space situation...it could be a bigger factor for storing against a wall, etc. Space issues are just one of the several challenges that the outboard motor causes...DC is another as you mentioned. Alignment concerns, longer belt, keeping a clear path for tilting, etc., all just go with the territory. For me, those nuisances all add up to a "why the heck does this thing have to be where it is?!" My stance in favor of the hybrid design stems from the fact that the outboard motor has no key advantages over an enclosed motor, but the inboard mounting poses several.

In this case, I think Bill Biesemeyer heavily influenced the vote! Walking away from a Biese and cast iron in favor of an Align-a-Right and steel is a tall order...