Craftsman Bandsaw prepurchase ?

[LinuxRandal]

There is Craftsman bandsaw on Ebay that looks like the one I am supposed to go see today (not sure if it is EXACTLY the same model, but is the same generation and stickers and such). It's a 12" that he is asking a note for ($100), but I don't know much about this generation one (except the prefix indicates an Emerson). Is it worth it?

Link to the Ebay auction for comparison
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sears-CRAFTSMAN-...QQcmdZViewItem

Remember I have a small shop (6' in height as one example), so both a larger one and the need, is really out of the question for me. (unless I change my morals and get offered that 7 figure sum again, not likely)

[LCHIEN]

Doesn't look too recent.

you might consider this new one
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/searc...&vertical=TOOL

for only $100 it's 10" but has a 4-5/8" resaw. made by Rikon
All metal euro-style welded cabinet instead of that plastic case in your eBay picture.
Whaler (Dick) just bought one for his retirement living unit workshop

[Ken Massingale]

Doesn't look too recent.

you might consider this new one
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/searc...&vertical=TOOL

for only $100 it's 10" but has a 4-5/8" resaw. made by Rikon
All metal euro-style welded cabinet instead of that plastic case in your eBay picture.
Whaler (Dick) just bought one for his retirement living unit workshop

Loring,
That Rikon makes Craftsman bandsaws is a myth. This is from Rikon as a response to me asking them that question:

"RIKON does not manufacture the Sears Bandsaws. The factory which we work closely with manufactures for several companies throughout the world. "

Just trying to clear that up, no offense intended.

[crokett]

Loring,
"RIKON does not manufacture the Sears Bandsaws. The factory which we work closely with manufactures for several companies throughout the world. "
.

So Rikon is saying that they don't make the bandsaws but the same factory does? Isn't that the next best thing?

[Ken Massingale]

So Rikon is saying that they don't make the bandsaws but the same factory does? Isn't that the next best thing?

Hard to say Dave. Rikon said something like only their saws are made in the plant, but the company that makes them has other plants. And Rikon has their own specs, QC, etc.
Those two sentences were not all of the email, believe me the V.P. that sent it was very emphatic that the Rilon's and CM's are not the same saw or even related.

[LCHIEN]

Loring,
That Rikon makes Craftsman bandsaws is a myth. This is from Rikon as a response to me asking them that question:

"RIKON does not manufacture the Sears Bandsaws. The factory which we work closely with manufactures for several companies throughout the world. "

Just trying to clear that up, no offense intended.

Yeah, rghtly so, I succombed to the myth thats going around. Suffice it to say the new C'man saws are styled very similarly to the Rikon saws.

That Rikon does not manufacture its own saws (that carry its name) does not say whether they contract the design of their saws out as well. In fact, it could be very well that the contract designers and the contract manufacturers for sears and rikon could be four different groups or could all be the same entity or closely related. That uncertainty and their apparent similar design style has led to the confusion. Each name-brand manufacturer like Rikon I'm sure would like you to believe that they have an exclusive design for sales differentiation.

P.S. in a parallel thread, Dustmight says that Richen makes the discussed bandsaws for Craftsman. Richen is the parent company for Rikon. So Rikon stating that they do not make the saw for Craftsman is technically correct.

It's probably likely that the engineers who designed the Rikon saw also designed the Craftsman saw, and that they were made in the same factory on the same lines. Rikon proabably functions as the sales and marketing arm for Richen. I don't doubt there are internal discussions about selling to the enemy.
Obviously touched on a nerve with the Rikon Guy. being a wholly owend subsidiary probably doesn't give them much final say.

[calec]

Buy the New Craftsman 21400!

Yup, I bought one (#21400) when it was on sale for $100 not too long ago. No complaints,
I like the steel table, rugged construction, roller guides etc.

Even steel doors!

Cal

[linear]

I have that unit. Mine performs better than it really has a right to.

I have resawn on mine using a 1/2" 3tpi timber wolf blade. I'd call the results adequate. It vibrates excessively in my opinion. I put additional tension on my belt to try to resolve that, but it's got a plastic housing, and an aluminum table, and it's just lightweight overall, so it vibrates.

The wheels on mine are pretty well balanced, and mine tracks well, because the guy who sold it to me seemingly knew how to set it up. I have no tracking issues at all with mine, so I know it can be set up to work well.

Blade tensioning is kind of irksome--the knob is high and hard to turn (maybe less of a hassle if you're tall) and the scale is not readable with the cover on and not all that useful with the cover off.

Mine came with the miter gauge, it is approximately worthless. Mine had been upgraded to cool blocks, which is a nice thing to have. Get a 3mm hex key to work on the blocks, I went down to Cummins and got one for 50 cents or something that I dedicated to the saw.

Dust collection is pretty marginal, the inside of the housing is all honeycombed and dust gets into all the crevices and isn't easy to remove without making a mess. (Probably this is my least favorite feature.) Pulling and replacing the plastic housing (The whole front comes off) is kind of a hassle.

It takes an 80 inch blade which is pretty easy to come by.

My final take is that 100 bucks is about the most I'd want to put into a saw like this. I contemplated upgrading my pulley, but decided to just sell mine and throw the bucks into a newer saw whenever the urge to upgrade couldn't be resisted.

[pber2025]

Loring,
That Rikon makes Craftsman bandsaws is a myth. This is from Rikon as a response to me asking them that question:

"RIKON does not manufacture the Sears Bandsaws. The factory which we work closely with manufactures for several companies throughout the world. "

Just trying to clear that up, no offense intended.

This is funny, because if you call Rikon from Canada and ask about there products they tell you to go to Sears since they do not sell up here!!!!

[gwyneth]

P.S. in a parallel thread, Dustmight says that Richen makes the discussed bandsaws for Craftsman. Richen is the parent company for Rikon. So Rikon stating that they do not make the saw for Craftsman is technically correct.

It's probably likely that the engineers who designed the Rikon saw also designed the Craftsman saw, and that they were made in the same factory on the same lines. Rikon proabably functions as the sales and marketing arm for Richen. I don't doubt there are internal discussions about selling to the enemy.
Obviously touched on a nerve with the Rikon Guy. being a wholly owend subsidiary probably doesn't give them much final say.

Aside from parsing out who makes what, who's owned by whom, and who designed what for whom, there's another factor that could make a major difference: quality control and standards of acceptance (not necessarily of manufacturer).

This was almost certainly one of the factors that distinguished Porsche 914s from their VW brethren (both using the "same" air-cooled engine.)

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Aside from parsing out who makes what, who's owned by whom, and who designed what for whom, there's another factor that could make a major difference: quality control and standards of acceptance (not necessarily of manufacturer).

This was almost certainly one of the factors that distinguished Porsche 914s from their VW brethren (both using the "same" air-cooled engine.)

Ya, we have to remember that Saw Stop Cabinet Saw is made in the very same factory as a number of Grizzly products.

[sparkeyjames]

My take on this is that they do all come from the same factory and that any unit that does not meet Rikon's QC standards becomes someone elses saw. Trust a stuffed shirt to dissemble the the truth whenever possible.

Next two weeks we run Rikon any not meet spec go to next on list pool. Next on list Grizzly after that Sears.

[LCHIEN]

My take on this is that they do all come from the same factory and that any unit that does not meet Rikon's QC standards becomes someone elses saw. Trust a stuffed shirt to dissemble the the truth whenever possible.

Next two weeks we run Rikon any not meet spec go to next on list pool. Next on list Grizzly after that Sears.

as an engineer familair with manufacturing and supply I can't believe this scenario.

You cannot rely on rejects to supply any foreseeable requirements.
I could see for example that its possible for rejects to end up as no name sale items but no reputable maker would risk his rep on that.

QC rejects occur on individual parts and on completed assy's - you don't want to wait for fianl test to reject machines based on individual parts failures - way too expensive.

Even units that fail, most can generally be reworked rather than sacrificed.

1% or usually way less or completed units should end up as rejects, or your manufacturing line is totally shot. a number between 0-and 1% would not be a reliable way to fill standing name brand orders for contract manufacturing, where they have delivery dates and quantities that must be met. Its not cost effective for someone like sears to take an unpredictable quantity or delivery date for some tool that they run a sale on.

[Stytooner]

Aparently, this saw is gone anyway. My FIL had one of these saws. He liked his, but it was difficult to get tracking correctly for him. He just had little experience adjusting guides. I did show him how to do it, but he still traded it for the little 10" Delta straight up. I think the trader got the better bargain.
Craftsman had a newer generation of these 12" saws back in the 80's. I would have to rebuild the lower shafts and bearings about every six months. These were full time production machines that were designed for home use though. These machines were very capable when treated and adjusted correctly.

As for Rikon and Craftsman, don't the two saws have different specs? It could be that one company makes all the frames and then sends them to different factories where they are assembled with completely different parts. Isn't the frame the only thing that looks identical? Perhaps the table as well.