SawStop Saw

[ragswl4]

There is a switch, that you use, you have something with a light that signals the wood is to wet. You hit the switch and it disables the brake, to eliminate false (and positive) trips.

It is indeed worth $160 to save a hand or finger, no question there. I don't believe the engineering in the sawstop has gone far enough to make this a good deal for safety reasons. Being able to disable a safety feature is in some sense, like not having that feature. I would think a warning from the saw maker that certain types of materials will or could cause a false tripping of the safety feature. Include a recommendation that those materials should not be cut on the saw. Better better solution, IMO.

Murphy law says "you are going to loose that finger when cutting wet wood".

I saw too many folks get injured when circumventing safety features and procedures. Myself included.

[cgallery]

I believe the safety features automatically re-engage w/ a power cycle. If you want them off, you have to turn them off each time you power-up.

Also, I believe SawStop will provide free replacement carts in the event that you have: (1) A truly unexplained trip, like the wood was dry and no metal. (2) If there is a skin contact trip. In both cases I think they want to evaluate the cart, which has a little black-box feature that records information about the trip.

I have only read about these policies on other forums. No direct knowledge.

[cbrown]

According to this video review, the brake feature can be disengaged for one cut (power on-power off) with a key switch but automatically resets every time the motor is powered down. It seems like the real risk here is forgetting to disable the brake for the second cut of aluminum bar. Although one of the commenters on the video says the company will send a free brake cartridge if you send in a letter explaining what happened, I assume this is to gather stories of saves (http://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop-testimonials.htm) rather than of simple non-injurious stupidity.

What is ridiculous is that (with the discontinuation of the BT3100) one has to pay over $2K to get a saw with a riving knife--SawStop or PM2000 (I understand the new Bosch 4100 portable saws will have knives, though).

Chris

[gwyneth]

What is ridiculous is that (with the discontinuation of the BT3100) one has to pay over $2K to get a saw with a riving knife--SawStop or PM2000 (I understand the new Bosch 4100 portable saws will have knives, though).

You forgot the Sears 21829, which is made by Ryobi and is either a BT3100-C or a BT3200, depending on who you ask, and costs between $370 and $450.

[tedkitch]

I'll try to answer the questions I've been reading. To disengage the safety feature there is a key that has to be placed in the slot, turned to the on position (just like when you start your car) and then the saw has to be turned on. As soon as the saw is turned off then the safety features are back on again.

The blade that we tested with was a 40 tooth and the brake was tripped and stopped the blade in 5 teeth. The first tooth barely hit the aluminum of the brake and the following four were buried in the brake. The last tooth was 1/2" into the aluminum. If you can get the blade out of the brake (we weren't able to) then I guess that you could sharpen it again.

One other cool thing about is that to take the blade guard off and use the riving knife, there is a lever that opens it up and out it comes, just like that.

As far as moisture content and cutting metal goes, the saw will tell you (it has two lights and a legend by the switch) if what you are about to cut will trip the brake. It also tells you if you have any issues with the brake.

Another thing that has impressed me with the saw is how smoothly the blade rises and tilts. The fence is great and very smooth.

Just about every question that one would have can be answered on this page.

[lkazista]

Ted,

Some great info you've provided, it is nice to see some of the "myths" knocked down by someone with first hand (and all 10 fingers) knowledge.

Keep us updated if your opinion changes.

Lee

[LCHIEN]

Here's a hot dog video from Sawstop Inc.; it does show the nick in the hot dog but their feed rate was faster and its still a relatively small nick compared to a finger. The video also shows a view of the SawStop mechanism in action, very informative video. Hadn't seen this one before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDOmG...related&search=

[dkerfoot]

I think where the saw really comes into its own is in a high school wood shop class and/or professional shops.

The wood shop class is self-explanatory. For professional shops, if you are familiar with OSHA fines and insurance costs after the loss of a limb, the cost of the saw itself is insignificant.

[radhak]

Sometime ago I met somebody at the woodcraft store who was an instructor at a high school wood shop (forgot his name and school... ). He had this saw in the school, and the first rule he made sure all the kids knew was : "if you trip the saw, you pay for the replacement". Sounded very fair to me . If I were the owner of a pro-shop, I'd put the same rule down - and keep the employees alert.

He also said the saw tripped twice in the year he had it : once, a genuine save - the boy was shaking for a long time later, and his dad came in the next day to pay the fine, and to thank the school for the safety device! I couldn't agree more.

He said the other 'trip' was almost certainly a deliberate attempt to 'try it out'; happened when this instructor was out of the room momentarily, and nobody admitted to it, so he asked the whole class to pool-in and pay up; sure enough, the culprit got ratted out .

Anyhoo, great innovation, but not for shallow-pockets like me. I might just as well stay awake while using my TS .

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I am going to be that person that everyone hates . . . . boy would it kill them to put cast iron wings on that contractor saw instead of stamped steel?

[LinuxRandal]

I am going to be that person that everyone hates . . . . boy would it kill them to put cast iron wings on that contractor saw instead of stamped steel?

Being who you are (bargin hunter), and the everybody hates part, I figured this was a I bought a new Sawstop for $500.00 gloat.

Comeon Jeff, find us a bargin on this, LOL

[tedkitch]

Ted,

Some great info you've provided, it is nice to see some of the "myths" knocked down by someone with first hand (and all 10 fingers) knowledge.

Keep us updated if your opinion changes.

Lee

The more we use the saw the more we like it. We have very good European saws (Altendorf) and other American made (Grizzly, Powermatic & Steel City Works) table saws in a variety of functions and the SawStop saw is hands down the favorite of everyone. The one thing that it matches of the Altendorf is the fluidity of the mechanisms. Everything raises, lowers, tilts, etc. with a very smooth, fluid motion. They really didn't stop with the gimmick of the blade not hurting anyone. The hood around the blade has kept the inside of the cabinet relatively clean and compared to our other table saws where dust gets in the motors and we have to replace them, the SawStop saw doesn't appear to have the same type of issue, so I would expect to replace the motor much less frequently.

Using the saw is nice and the fence glides effortlessly. Just a really well done saw.

I'll keep everyone posted as to our happenings with the saw.

[cabinetman]

Ted

From what you know about the saw, will the brake thingie work if the hot dog is fed into the blade from the top or on the rear side?
.

[AlanWS]

With the riving knife installed, it's not easy to get at the top or rear of the blade, but the detection scheme does not care what direction you approach, so yes, it will protect you. One of the magazines (it may have been FWW) tried putting a hotdog on a stick and swinging it down hard on top of the blade. There was a nick in the hotdog, but it was considerably smaller than the cut from hitting the blade with the saw turned off.

[dpaton]

...will the brake thingie work if the hot dog is fed into the blade from the top or on the rear side?

It should. The initial design and testing was done independent of the saw completely, and is based on the same capacitive touch technology that's used for touch dimmers and lamps, among other things...just with some extra magic added.

And yes, any sufficiently wet thing that contacts the blade will cause the brake to actuate. If you have $80 to throw away, toss a wet washcloth on the blade. If the moisture content is high enough, it should activate the brake before the cloth gets sucked into the saw. The same trick should work with a sponge too.

As for the blade, yup, it'll be toast. The deceleration is in excess of 100Gs, which will be fatal for any chunk of metal resembling a saw blade. The blade may not look terribly mangled, but it's definitely done for.

How do I know? I used to sit next to the guy who designed the electronics, and the big thick design binder was on a shelf an arm's length from my desk at my former employer.

-dave