Questions before I purchase new TS..

[cpritchard]

Thanks for all the replys! Looks like I will be leaning towards a hybrid or the Griz1023. Are there any major differences in the two?

[LarryG]

Hey LarryG you confused me there about a RK being more effective over a splitter at the beginning of a cut. Is that correct? I thought that kickbacks mostly occurred at the end of a cut and therefore the RK would be more effective at the end of a cut or am I misunderstanding this.

What I was trying to say was and is clear to me, but obviously it would be, wouldn't it?

In comparing the effectiveness of the two devices at the beginning of the cut, I meant that since the RK hugs the blade and the splitter is typically a few inches behind the blade, the RK becomes effective earlier in the cut ... virtually immediately, because its position makes it almost like an extension of the blade. If there are internal stresses within the workpiece that try to make it close up the kerf, the RK is there to hold the kerf open as soon as the workpiece passes the back edge of the blade. Some pieces of wood have such high internal stresses that even the few inches of distance to the splitter is enough for the kerf to start closing up behind the blade. Or, with short workpieces, an RK might well be contributing to safety at times when a splitter never even comes into play, because it's too far away from the blade.

IOW, what I meant was, in addition to the RK's improved safety toward the end of the cut, which I think everyone is aware of, I was just saying that it's better during the first part of a cut, too.

[jackellis]

Even though there aren't any riving knives in this price range, there are options for low cost low profile splitters that will fit any of them.

I've just purchased a Shark Guard with RK for my 3100 and I notice it also appears to fit a number of larger, more expensive saws. Wouldn't the RK on a Shark Guard perform as well on the cabinet saws it fits as the stock RK on a 3100? If so, it seems like a worthwhile addition.

[Knottscott]

Thanks for all the replys! Looks like I will be leaning towards a hybrid or the Griz1023. Are there any major differences in the two?

Absolutely. In addition to jumping to a full 3hp motor, the trunnions and innerds of the 1023 are much more substantial. My 22124 is plenty rugged and powerful enough for hobby work, but in sheer construction terms, the 1023 is basically an industrial grade saw and is more robust than any hybrid I know of. The 22124 and other hybrids are great if you don't have 220v, and/or their sale prices are the absolute top limit of your budget, but if you can swing the roughly $1100 or so price and 220v, there are no advantages with the hybrid design over the cab saw design.

Performance wise, you probably won't notice any difference in the cut quality between them, but you will notice the increased feedrate on the 1023. You'd probably notice a difference in the "feel" of the 1023 due to the sheer mass over the G0478....the 22124 is heavy enough (425#) that the weight difference should be less pronounced compared to the 1023. DC should be about the same with all of them, but G0478 hybrid may have some advantage due to the blade shroud.

Top view of the 1023 trunnions:


Bottom view of the Griz G0478 hybrid trunnions:


Top view of the 22124 trunnoins:

[cpritchard]

Thanks Dustmight, that helps alot! I think for me, the G0478 might be the route to go.
Is the saw you have, the craftsman hybrid?

[Knottscott]

Thanks Dustmight, that helps alot! I think for me, the G0478 might be the route to go.
Is the saw you have, the craftsman hybrid?

Guilty as charged!

[lcm1947]

Thank you LarryG. I figured it was me but just wanted to make sure. Plus I got more good info out of you to boot. You are expert at explaining stuff. Thanks again.

[cpritchard]

I looked at that one this weekend, but did not like how the table and wings matched up. The wings sat lower than the table. It may have been just set up wrong, is your table and wings level to each other.

Also, does it have the ability to upgrade to longer rails?

[SARGE..g-47]

If you like to ride horses occassionally, a quarter horse is a good choice.... If you want to pull a Bud wagon, get a Clydesdale!

Cabinet saw without even a second thought if the purse strings allow!

Good luck...

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Take a look at those photos again. I am suprised your answer would be G0478 after looking under the table. I would say the 22124 is by far a better saw than the G0478. Cabinet mounted trunions, great fence and included table extension, etc make the 22124 a much better choice in my opinion. Having said that, if was paying retail I would definatively go with the G1023 given the 3 choices. Shipping is the same as the G00478 and you get those massive trunnions in the photos, 3hp motor (big difference between 1.5 and 3 in the real world).
As far as changing rails on the 22124, that is quite easy as this is a true Biesemeyer fence. I don't think you would ever have the need to go with larger rails. I mean if you really wanted the width right of the blade you could simply move the rail down and reset the measurement tape.
If you are going to spend $1000 I would watch the Bargin Alerts section here, along with the power tools sections of Woodnet.net and Sawmillcreek.org. There have been recent deals on Delta UniSaws and Jet cabinet saw that are in that price range. Don't get me wrong, I think the G1023 is just as good of a saw as the Delta and Jet product, some folks just like Delta or Jet better.

[Knottscott]

I looked at that one this weekend, but did not like how the table and wings matched up. The wings sat lower than the table. It may have been just set up wrong, is your table and wings level to each other.

Also, does it have the ability to upgrade to longer rails?

Chris - I don't want to patronize the 22124 to influence you...it's such a personal decision, but I'd hate to see you pass up the right saw because the wings and table didn't match up on a display...especially a Sears display. Mine are about as tight as is reasonably possible, and so are those on a friend's 22124. There are alot of happy 22124 owners out there, most seen to have very few complaints. Wing alignment doesn't seem to be a big issue. It's not uncommon for any saw with cast iron wings to require some shimming. My General International did, and the 22124 did...it's just part of the setup procedure, like blade, pulley, and fence alignment...some are dead nuts, some not.

The 22124 has 30" ripping capability to the right and about 20" to the left with the stock configuration. It's an easy task to slide the rails 10" or 20" to the right by giving up some of the capacity on the left. Mine are 10" over for a rip capacity of 40". Longer rails are available if wanted.

That said, I do think the 0478 will have somewhat better DC, and there is some advantage with the cast shroud design vs the large connecting rods. The downside are the table mounted trunnions...alignment will likely be more challenging. It's up to you to decide if those advantages outweigh the advantages of the 22124 and 1023. I honestly don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

Just for the sake of adding confusion, have you looked at a Steel City 35601?

http://steelcitytoolworks.com/produc...=12&tool=35601

Here's a pic of my setup with the rails to the right and a router table:

[Jeffrey Schronce]

The above post reminds me, I have the 22124 and my wings are flat and level. No problems what so ever. Much like HD, Lowes, etc you can't let Sears assembly put you off.

Deals on the 22124 have not been as active as they originally were at first. I personally got mine for $399 from a Sears Essentials store in NJ. I *believe* one person "one upped" me and got theirs for $399 - 10% = $360. Those were unusual clearance situations, however the saw has been regularly had at the $700 point. You need to catch it on sale, then find 10% off everything weekened, maybe a 10% of Sears card purchases and possibly Craftsman Club deal.

I do agree with others that the blade guard does tend to allow dust to shoot out the front of the guard, however, I do find it an incredibly easy guard to take on and off. It requires not tools. Simply snap in and out. Very simple, thus very safe as I tend to use it a lot! I really like the saw. I believe the Steel City version is worth taking a look at as it comes in a 3hp flavor. However, with a thin kerf blade the 1.5hp with the 22124 works pretty well. I saw a lot of thick hardwoods like maple, walnut and cherry.

Don't let the Craftsman name put you off. Its a great saw made by Orion, a well respected company that was formed by former Delta/Jet employees. There are a lot of happy people out there with the 22124. Oh, ya it comes with a very decent Leitz blade as well.

[cpritchard]

I had no idea that the rails could be slid for wider cuts. That definately is a plus to me. I will go by Sears again and play with it again. I really did like the outfeed support on it. It was actually one of my favorites when I came up with a small list of saws to choose from. The poor setup at sears kindof threw me off though.

I will keep my eyes open for some deals.

BTW, why is table mounted trunions harder for alignment? And would a Shark guard remedy the blade shroud problem?
Sorry for the newb questions.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I had no idea that the rails could be slid for wider cuts. That definately is a plus to me. I will go by Sears again and play with it again. I really did like the outfeed support on it. It was actually one of my favorites when I came up with a small list of saws to choose from. The poor setup at sears kindof threw me off though.

I will keep my eyes open for some deals.

BTW, why is table mounted trunions harder for alignment? And would a Shark guard remedy the blade shroud problem?
Sorry for the newb questions.

It is unlikely that you need anything wider than standard issue rails. Even set in their normal position, you will rarely need anything that wide. Sheet goods is one of the few times you deal with really wide stuff. In those cases it is generally easier and safer to break the sheets down with a circular or jigsaw first. Unless you are using Board Buddies, it is hard to keep a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood against the fence.
The outfeed is cool, though I took mine off and gave it to my Dad to put on his entry level zip code saw. I have my bench parallel to the saw providing a large outfeed table.
Table mounted trunions require loosening a few bolts, then you can easily use a rubber mallet to bump the saw top until your miter gauge is parallel to the blade. Really easy on the 22124. I am not sure how aligning table mounted trunions work, however everyone says it is harder. Of course, once they are set you rarely have to do it again unless you move the saw or otherwise cause it to go out of alignment.
Given the ease of removing and replacing the guard on the 22124 I think the Shark is too much money for what is gained. Folks will argue with that I am sure, however if I was really concerned with above blade dust collection I would attach a 2" or so hose to hole I would make in the standard guard.

[cpritchard]

Jeff, thanks for the great info. I am always so grateful to all the info gained on this site. If this site isnt making money it should, I would gladly pay membership to this club.

I will keep my eys on the bargain alerts for a good deal on this zip code saw. If you see something please pass it along.