Does One Blade Really "do it all"?

[SARGE..g-47]

I personally am not a proponent of "one blade will do it all" line of thinking. After reading the thread on praise of the Forrest 40 tooth (and I'm sure it's an excellent blade from all the hype it recieves), I wondered if there was anyone else that had come to the same conclussion as myself from their own experiences?

I have used mainly Freud 24 T ripper and 60 T cross-cuts on my BT for years. I now do my crosscutting with a SCMS and Freud 60 T CMS blade and dedicate the TS to ripping as it was originally designed. I get excellent results on both the cross-cut and ripping operation with blades that cost far less than the expense of a touted "holy grail" blade.

I just purchased a CMT carbide thin kerf (used with a CMT stiffner) 24 T (2 ATB T and 1 flat T) configured rip blade. I strayed from the Freud just to see if I could get good results elsewhere. Ripping 200 linear feet of 8/4 (2" thick)white oak Saturday for a project gave me perfect rip cuts. I even re-sawed some of the white oak 5" tall with a double pass which left a perfectly flat side. I encounted no burn marks over the entire 200" feet with a steady feed and the blade and saw "beggin" for more....

Cost.. $32.95 retail! Meaning I can keep 2 blades on hand while one is being sharpened without down time less than the cost of a "do all". Same scenario with the SCMS with a sharp but less expensive blade.

As I was headed out the door of the shop, I swore I heard a bold voice from the cheap blade and little under-powered saw... ha.. ha...

"Did you get your money's worth"?? :>)

Regards...

[Knottscott]

Hey Sarge! In theory, a good general purpose blade will not perform as well as a dedicated purpose blade in the two extreme ranges of ripping and crosscutting, assuming the two dedicated blades are of comparable quality to the GP blade. That said, I've used both dedicated and general purpose blades, and I find that blades like the WWII (and Ridge Carbide, DW7657, and Tenryu Gold Medal) will do a really good job of the same tasks...good enough that I'm not inclined to change the blade out for the different types of cuts. I do use a rip blade in really thick stock to spare my motor and my good blade, and I can say that one of my 60T blades (LU88R010), and my 80T blades (Leitz Pro, DW7647, DW3128TK, and LU74R010) do crosscut a tad cleaner, but it's not a night and day difference. The cut from the WWII is rarely "not" good enough for the application. I'll only resort to the 80T blade if I have a very critical cut to make on very expensive material. The one I've kept was actually a prize, and is primarily for my CMS, which I rarely use. I've since sold off the other 80 toofers....I simply don't have a need for them. The improvement is usually fairly minimal over the WWII.

When comparing the WWII to some fairly good 60T blades, if the quality of the 60T blade drops off even a little, the WWII gives the cleaner cut. I've compared it directly to the DW7646, LU82M010, Oldham 60T finishing blade, Leitz 60T, and LU88R010, and of those, only the LU88R010 consistently left a cleaner cut than the WWII. The WWII definitely trumps other good quality but more modest 40T blades like the LU86, Leitz 40T, and Tenryu Rapid Cut 40T. I've compared the WWII (and the above mentioned GP blades) to some good 50T combo blades too, and found they made a cleaner cut than the LU84, Leitz 50T TK, and Tenryu 50T. The WWII doesn't cut as cleanly as any of the 80T blades I've tried, which are all considered high end, but it's alot more versatile and less prone to burning.....I'd bet heavily that it'll cut cleaner than most $40 big box 80 tooth run of the mill crosscut blades like a Marathon, B&D, PC, or Skil though....

Note that my results aren't overly scientific and that they apply only to my saw and only to examples of those models I had on hand...YMMV, and there may be some variability from model to model that could change the results. The differences are essentially "knitpicks" IMO, because all except for the Oldham made acceptable cuts for most of my needs. It's also worth noting that if the saw has excessive runout or is not set up optimally, it'll mask the results of a blade comparison if they're remotely close in capability. I think my setup was pretty good, but a professional machine tuner might disagree! I suspect when people mention that they can't tell the difference between the WWII and an alleged "lesser" blade, that the saw is actually a considerable variable. Also, as mentioned, the cuts are often close enough in quality that there's a knack for looking at the cuts under bright lights to spot the differences.

Congrats on your new CMT blade....I've never had the chance to try one.

p.s. I'm actually finding my LU88 to be a really good general purpose blade. It's marketed as a crosscut blade, but it rips really well to about 6/4" for me and I'm able to leave it in the saw for most cuts. It's been seeing more saw time than my WWII lately....

http://www.epinions.com/content_226312687236

[LCHIEN]

If you are satisfied with the results, then one blade can do it all, for you.

Particularly if you are not in a hurry and don't care what the cut looks like then
I can point you at a $10 all purpose blade that will make you werry, werry hoppy.

[vaking]

Sarge,
First of all - if you use table saw only for rip cuts and SCMS only for crosscuts each with low cost dedicated blade - you are all set and you have nothing to worry. All around blade like WWII is for people who only have one saw and cannot afford to use this machine for only one type of cut. They do rip and crosscut on same machine. Dedicated blades will mean people have to change blades often and that gets really annoying. Universal blades are an attempt to make a blade which will allow you to use same blade for both types of cuts with passable quality. Is this blade capable to perform really as well as a dedicated rip or dedicated crosscut blade? For a perfectionist - probably not. But for many cases perfection is an overkill. Your requirements to quality are not always the same and for many occasions such blade will do a job "good enough". I approach the same topic a little differently.
I have a dedicated CMS (12") with specialized 100 teeth crosscut blade. BT3100 is used for rip cuts and for sheet goods. I have dedicated blades for rip (Freud 24T) and for fine plywood cuts (Freud 80T). I also have a decent universal blade (I paid $20 on clearance but it actually is $40-$50 blade branded as "Woodworker's choice".) This blade is the high end of Oldham. It is certainly not a match for WWII or for dedicated blades I have, but it is good enough for 80% of cuts I make. If I need a super quality cut - I change the blade. I would not pay for WWII simply because I view any universal blade as a compromise (notice that all the people who use WWII still have dedicated blades), so why should I pay big money for it? But for $20 if I don't have to change blades as often - I will agree.

[cgallery]

Hey Sarge.

I normally use a WWII blade. Recently I needed to rip some 1-3/4" LVL (laminated veneer lumber) and found that the WWII was struggling so I purchased a Diablo ripper. It had a much easier time ripping the LVL. But then I noticed tha the Diablo ripper did about as good cross-cutting as the WWII blade. I decided that I had a dull WWII blade.

While I sent it (and the original Ryobi blade) in for sharpening, I purchased a 40-tooth Diablo blade. I'm very happy w/ the cuts w/ that Diablo, too. I use my saw for ripping and cross-cutting, so I really want a general purpose blade so I don't need to change blades very often. I don't mind switching to a ripper for thick stock, but I don't want to be changing every couple of cuts.

I've come to feel that the most important thing is that the blades be kept sharp. I've also come to the conclusion that carbide blades lose their super-sharp edges pretty fast, but then maintain a "sharp-enough" cutting edge for quite a while. But even that can't last as long as I was using it.

-Phil

P.S. Now I have to wonder whether $12 to $20 to sharpen blades is worthwhile when you can find good deals on blades ($20). Forrest charges $20 to sharpen 40-teeth. But if you have a chipped tooth, etc., the price goes up.

[Knottscott]

...
P.S. Now I have to wonder whether $12 to $20 to sharpen blades is worthwhile when you can find good deals on blades ($20). Forrest charges $20 to sharpen 40-teeth. But if you have a chipped tooth, etc., the price goes up.

Hi Phil - I'd have to say "yes", IMO. It's hard to find a decent $20 blade deal, though I have (LU86 Amazon deal, Leitz 40T, Leitz 50T, Tenryu RS25540), but even the best $20ish blade I've run across doesn't stack up to the versatility, cut quality, and edge longevity of the WWII (or it's equals) in my experience. You get top grade carbide with the better blades, which can be sharpened to a finer edge, and hold an edge longer, plus there's usually more of it for more sharpenings. You get a stiffer higher quality steel body than you'll find a great $20 blade deal, so they tend to be more stable.

Whether or not one can justify the initial cost of a WWII is another matter, but I have seen them on sale frequently in the low $70's shipped, and as low as ~ $60 if you bought two (sell one...), so they're not all that pricey if you watch for the deals long enough. Once you've got one, having it sharpened is a bargain IMO!

On a slight tangent, keeping a blade clean is the key to keeping it sharp for a long time.

[SARGE..g-47]

Thanks for all the various replies guys. I like to have a look at things from others veiwpoints occasionally even though I probably am set in my approaches until I see that approach weaken or stumlbe across a better way.

Seems that we all have various ideas of how much attention we pay to certain details. But after you have the basic tools, the knowledge and the experience in the trenchs... I have concluded that "detail" is perhaps what gives us a honing touch of our finish line results.

Pin-pointing those details still fall into the laps of each of us individually depending on several factors. Financial justification, personality, time alloted and the level of intensity we as individuals are we are willing to put forth in pursuit of the craft.

I suppose the bottom line is realizing that we all have varying views and that if that view is working for an individual... don't fix it till it breaks! ha.. ha...

Regards for the evening.. jt

[messmaker]

Hey Dustmight. You are a wealth of knowledge in the area of saw blades. Have you ever considered getting a "Sticky" so that it might be out there for all to use at any time. I know you have spent countless hours helping all of us knuckleheads to better understand how best to spend our limited tool money on sawblades. Just a thought.

[Knottscott]

Hey Dustmight. You are a wealth of knowledge in the area of saw blades. Have you ever considered getting a "Sticky" so that it might be out there for all to use at any time. I know you have spent countless hours helping all of us knuckleheads to better understand how best to spend our limited tool money on sawblades. Just a thought.

Thanks for the plug....no I haven't considered a sticky and wouldn't begin to know how to do it. I do have several blade reviews on Epinions under the handle of "Woody2", and Joe Lyddon has links to those on his site. I'm happy to share whatever I know with anyone interested, but I've got to add a disclaimer that I'm just a guy sharing experiences and my opinions of them...doesn't make me right!

http://woodworkstuff.net/woodidxlinks.html

[JimD]

Wood magazine had a little piece a few months back where they compared a combination blade - I think it was a 50 tooth 4 ATB + raker (10 sets) like the LU88 Freud - with dedicated ripping and crosscut blades. They compared both sharp and when the blade needed sharpening. Their conclusion was that you should buy two combination blades so you always had a sharp one.

I do not ascribe to that theory because the BT3100 does not have a 3hp or 5hp motor. I use a LU88 or a DeWalt equivalent most of the time and I agree both will crosscut and rip well and also cut up plywood well. What they do not do real well is 3 inch rips in hardwood. I have a Freud 24 tooth ripping blade for the occasional time I need to make a deep rip cut. With a big enough motor, maybe the combination blades would do this well but with the BT3100 motor, I think a few tooth flat top teeth ripping blade makes sense.

I also agree with the comments that a lot of carbide blades will function well as a combination blade when sharp. That is not real useful information however, IMHO. You need a blade to work more than a week or two (or at least I do). Flat topped blades do not cut plywood cleanly as soon as they get even a little bit dull, in my experience. ATB blades will. Good combination blades will.

Lastly, I would also agree with the comment about cleaning. I have often been pleasantly surprised how much better a blade cut after I spent a few minutes cleaning it. The other reason to clean is that the heat from the junk on the blade dragging in the cut and even burning can damage the carbide teeth of the blade. I have a squirt bottle of CMT blade cleaner that gets used fairly regularly.

Jim