Remove trash can separator?

[Tom Miller]

Show of hands -- how many of you use a trash can separator with your DC?

My trashcan separator is woefully undersized (especially after upgrading to a 2HP Grizzly DC) so that it is always scoured clean. It's only use now is to keep big chunks from hitting the DC impeller. So, I'm thinking of removing it from the system.

Has anyone ever damaged their DC with a chunk of wood, screw, etc.? Are there any other precautions to consider before going can-free?

Thanks,
Tom

[BostonBullit]

well see what you need to do is starve the DC for air by running small 4" flex hose everywhere like I do, then the stuff stays in the can! [)]

I'd say that if nothing much is staying in there then you might as well remove it...unless you often have large bits getting sucked into your pipeing. Like I said, mine keeps most everything that passes by it but only because I haven't setup my bigger lines yet and I'll most likely end up taking it out of the loop when I do. but I'm far from an expert on the subject [:I][B)]

Peter

[maxparot]

quote:Originally posted by Tom Miller

Show of hands -- how many of you use a trash can separator with your DC?

My trashcan separator is woefully undersized (especially after upgrading to a 2HP Grizzly DC) so that it is always scoured clean. It's only use now is to keep big chunks from hitting the DC impeller. So, I'm thinking of removing it from the system.

Has anyone ever damaged their DC with a chunk of wood, screw, etc.? Are there any other precautions to consider before going can-free?

Thanks,
Tom

My DC is a 1 HP HF portable with a Grizzly 3 micron filter bag.
Yes I have a trash can separator it it does work quite well.
My system is set up with all 4" pipe and blast gates on each tool.
The only spot that needs work is the CMS I have it connected using a 2 1/4" adapter and it makes a mess. I'm thinking about switching to one of those big pickup shields instead.
Otherwise the system does well on my BT3100, Ridgid 13" planer and Central Machinery 7" Jointer.

[leehljp]

I use a trash can separator with my shop Vac and 2 ½ in hose, and being way short of a real DC, it does much better than the vac alone.

[Mike MN]

quote:Originally posted by leehljp

I use a trash can separator with my shop Vac and 2 ½ in hose, and being way short of a real DC, it does much better than the vac alone.

Really? Hmmmm, now I'm thinking I need a separator. I have a Craftsman 16 gal 6.5hp vac and it sucks up just about everything. I have absolutely no dust back from the exhaust. I do have to shake the daylights out of the pleated filter regularly, though I don't notice a loss in suction.

What am I missing? What is the benefit of a separator with a shop vac?

Mike
(who a year ago thought opening the garage door was his air cleaner! LOL)

[Brian G]

You don't have to shake out the pleated filter regularly , especially if you use the drywall filter bags in the ShopVac.

You don't have to empty the ShopVac as often.

You can use 4" hose and it (esp your 6.5hp) vac can keep up with a planer or a jointer.

You can also save money and make your own like thisShameless Plug for my system

[DrChas]

My neighbor made a cyclone out of a piece of sonotube. He put 6 inch inlet and outlet tubes on the top and slit the bottom part and taped it with duct tape to form it into a cone at the bottom. He claims it works very well as a preseparator, and that it cost just a few bucks.

[leehljp]

quote:Originally posted by Mike MN

quote:Originally posted by leehljp

I use a trash can separator with my shop Vac and 2 ½ in hose, and being way short of a real DC, it does much better than the vac alone.

What am I missing? What is the benefit of a separator with a shop vac?
Mike
(who a year ago thought opening the garage door was his air cleaner! LOL)

Brian summed it up well. If you make sawdust occasionally, and not much at that, a shop vac might be enough, but if you have to clean it two times in a day or at the end of one day's use, the trash can separator will double the length of time between cleanings/emptying. This is REALLY a big help with planers.

[Pappy]

I use a 35 gal seperator that works fairly well. Plans are to upgrade to 55 gal in the near future.

[JeffW]

I use the larger trash can seperator with my HF DC. The seperator keeps almost all the stuff. The lower bag has hardly anything it. Most of the time I just use 2 1/2 hose and not the 4". This keeps things as I want them.

[Stytooner]

If I was already set up with a trash can separator, I would not consider doing away with it, but rather making it work by increasing the size of the container. You have yet to see the benefits of using a separator. You will increase the time between bag cleanings and your bag or filter will stay cleaner longer, so the efficiency also stays higher longer. Not much work involved in increasing the size now. The inlet and outlet positions also play a big part as to how well it dumps trash out of the air stream.
I don't think those stock trashcan separator lids are engineered for any larger volume like you may have with the Grizzly. Not enough room in the small can to dump any separated particles. It all stays right in the stream.
I use a 50 gallon plastic drum and I can only get it half full bfore it starts clogging my screen on top by picking up shavings off the pile. The next logical step for me is a cyclone. This is in effect what the trash can separators are trying to emulate. Not only is there more room for separation in a cyclone, but the design increases the efficiency of the airsteam to drop nearly all partcles out of the airstream. Even very fine particles if it is designed well enough.

[Tom Miller]

Thanks for the replies, guys. So far no replies from anyone using a full-fledged DC without a separator.

My dilemma is that I don't want to go to the bother of up-sizing to a 55 gal. separator if that's just gonna get sucked clean as well. So then, like Lee, my next logical step would be a cyclone. Frankly, I don't want to (or think I need to) head down that road.

I don't mind replacing the plastic bottom bag of my DC, so that's not a real issue, either.

So, I guess for now my only concern is protecting the DC impeller. Anybody have any words of caution, or alternate methods of protecting it, before I pull the can?

Thanks,
Tom

[DrChas]

In Fine woodworking some time back they showed a schematic for a dust drop box. Basically it was an air-tight box with an inlet connector near the top on one side and an outlet connector on the other. Between the two was a baffle. Basically it worked by being a large space where the air slowed down and most of the dust dropped out.

The design was actually a bit more sophisticated in that it had an inner removable box to ease the emptying of the dust, baffles to direct the dust into the removable box and an airtight door. It might be worth looking for it.

I think its a good idea to have something to separate out the big chunks, especially the metal chunks before they hit the impeller though.

(One other thought I had on this was to split the 6 inch line into two 4 inch lines and go through two trashcan separators before rejoining them and going to the dust collector. The area of two 4 inch tubes is about the same as one 6 inch tube, so it shouldn't affect air flow too much, but it would slow down the airflow in the trash cans. -- I am in the midst of trying to figure out the best plan for dust management in my new this year shop, so I have been thinking about all of these possible options -- Right now I am using a shop vac [V])

[Bob Bassett]

Hey guys, answer the question. I have had a Sears 1 HP DC for years now. I use it for everything that it was designed to do plus I occasionally use it on the floor. It has a steel impeller and I have accidently sucked in everything from chunks of wood to rags to screws, ect. I have only had to clear james once (the rag). Otherwise a steel impeller just bypasses most everything.

quote:Originally posted by Tom Miller

Show of hands -- how many of you use a trash can separator with your DC?

My trashcan separator is woefully undersized (especially after upgrading to a 2HP Grizzly DC) so that it is always scoured clean. It's only use now is to keep big chunks from hitting the DC impeller. So, I'm thinking of removing it from the system.

Has anyone ever damaged their DC with a chunk of wood, screw, etc.? Are there any other precautions to consider before going can-free?

Thanks,
Tom

[Tom Miller]

quote:Originally posted by Bob Bassett

Hey guys, answer the question. I have had a Sears 1 HP DC for years now. I use it for everything that it was designed to do plus I occasionally use it on the floor. It has a steel impeller and I have accidently sucked in everything from chunks of wood to rags to screws, ect. I have only had to clear james once (the rag). Otherwise a steel impeller just bypasses most everything.

Thanks, Bob, that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Although, I guess if anyone had blown their DC apart, we'd have heard about it by now.

Regards,
Tom