Hot-Rodding The HF 2HP DC

[LarryG]

Seeking advice from those who have modified their Harbor Freight 2HP dust collectors for better performance.

The givens:

1. My current shop is a small, temporary arrangement that I'll use only for the next few years until I can build a larger, permanent one. So I don't want to spend a lot of time and money on DC ducting that will have to be transplanted, or possibly even abandoned.

2. Most of the major tools are grouped near the DC. I can reach everything in the shop except my CMS with a single 10' length of 4" hose, without having to roll the unit around.

3. I bought the HF accessory kit with the DC, which means I already own about half the total amount of hose and fittings I need. To get the rest, I was planning to buy a second kit.

4. Every run will have its own blast gate, located as close to the DC unit as I can get it.

5. I am going to do the conversion to a Wynn's cartridge filter and plastic bottom bag.

My questions:

1. All things considered -- small shop, temporary arrangement, no run of hose longer than 10 feet -- can I get acceptable performance in the short run, which is all I'm concerned about for now, by sticking with 4" hose and the 4" extraction ports on my machines? Or do I need to bite the proverbial bullet and open up everything to at least 5"?

2. Am I correct in thinking that this unit is not powerful enough to overcome the additional resistance of a trash can separator?

3. Harbor Freight has a pretty good prices on "compressor duty" motors. Would it be worthwhile to upgrade to a 3HP motor, using the stock impeller? Can this even be done?

4. Other than the stuff listed here ... is there anything else I need to be doing, or not doing?

[LCHIEN]

quote:Originally posted by LarryG

Seeking advice from those who have modified their Harbor Freight 2HP dust collectors for better performance.

The givens:

1. My current shop is a small, temporary arrangement that I'll use only for the next few years until I can build a larger, permanent one. So I don't want to spend a lot of time and money on DC ducting that will have to be transplanted, or possibly even abandoned.

2. Most of the major tools are grouped near the DC. I can reach everything in the shop except my CMS with a single 10' length of 4" hose, without having to roll the unit around.

3. I bought the HF accessory kit with the DC, which means I already own about half the total amount of hose and fittings I need. To get the rest, I was planning to buy a second kit.

4. Every run will have its own blast gate, located as close to the DC unit as I can get it.

5. I am going to do the conversion to a Wynn's cartridge filter and plastic bottom bag.

My questions:

1. All things considered -- small shop, temporary arrangement, no run of hose longer than 10 feet -- can I get acceptable performance in the short run, which is all I'm concerned about for now, by sticking with 4" hose and the 4" extraction ports on my machines? Or do I need to bite the proverbial bullet and open up everything to at least 5"?

2. Am I correct in thinking that this unit is not powerful enough to overcome the additional resistance of a trash can separator?

3. Harbor Freight has a pretty good prices on "compressor duty" motors. Would it be worthwhile to upgrade to a 3HP motor, using the stock impeller? Can this even be done?

4. Other than the stuff listed here ... is there anything else I need to be doing, or not doing?

your Q2 - the issue of a trash can separator is the not the added resistance but with the air flow you should be getting with a properly plumbed 2 HP DC, the transcan will be scoured clean and take up room but serve no useful purpose.

Your Q3 - putting a more powerful motor in will serve no useful purpose as the combination of the impellor size, RPM and ductwork determines the power consumed. A 3 HP motor driving the same load will only work to a load of 2 HP since its a 2 HP load.
Choking off the air flow with too-small ductwork will reduce the HP demand and will use say 1 HP from a 2 HP motor.
Put in a bigger motor with the same too-small ducts then you will be producing 1 HP with a 3 HP motor.

Your best bet for maximizing performance is to get big ductwork so that the 2 HP motor will be able to put all 2 HP into full airflow.
How can you want to spend so much money souping up the motor and then cheap out the ductwork? Yeah, More power! The 4" ducts on the HF 2HP are the weak point -starving the air flow. The best upgrade for this DC is 5" ducts.

[SteveR]

quote:Originally posted by LarryG

Seeking advice from those who have modified their Harbor Freight 2HP dust collectors for better performance.

1. All things considered -- small shop, temporary arrangement, no run of hose longer than 10 feet -- can I get acceptable performance in the short run, which is all I'm concerned about for now, by sticking with 4" hose and the 4" extraction ports on my machines? Or do I need to bite the proverbial bullet and open up everything to at least 5"?

Good questions Larry...following more on question 1 for myself. Don't mean to barge in..but your question is similiar to one I have been ponderin' for awhile.
I have never seen the unit in person. But I know I have seen in the pics there are two 4" ports....what size is the main port that actually leaves the machine that transitions into the two 4" ports? If it is 4" would it be feasible to make this hole a 5 or even 6" to help increase flow (and trash the 2-4" Y-ports)?
Thanks
Steve

[LarryG]

quote:Originally posted by LCHIEN

How can you want to spend so much money souping up the motor and then cheap out the ductwork? Yeah, More power!

Not so much money. HF currently has a 3HP motor on sale for $69. And the stock motor would be freed up for some other use.

But it was just a thought, trying to explore the possibilities; it's not anything I have a deep-seated, Tim Taylor-ish urge to do.

quote:The 4" ducts on the HF 2HP are the weak point -starving the air flow. The best upgrade for this DC is 5" ducts.

Even better than the Wynn's conversion?

One objection to going to 5" hose (I have no "ducts," per se) would be modifying the ports on all my tools to accept that size. OTOH I guess that's something that has to be done sooner or later so perhaps it might as well be right now. (But most of my tools are new; I wonder what this sort of mod would do to the warranty?)

EDIT: Steve, I had the impeller cover plate off last night, removing part of the internal safety grating that jointer and planer shavings will clog up easily, and while I didn't measure it I would say that the impeller side of the 2-into-1 splitter is 5". Some people have made a new cover plate to open this up to 6", but I think they had installations where they wanted to run a 6" hard duct for a distance before they made any "drops" to individual machines.

[AlanWS]

Remember that when people say you "can't" use a DC in some way, what they mean is that you will decrease the effectiveness below their idea of what you need. It will collect a lot of stuff with a maximum run of 10' of 4" duct. It will collect more with larger duct. The amount of power it draws depends on the impeller size, its speed, and the amount of air it moves. With a constant speed motor, simply increasing the power of the motor will have absolutely no effect, as long as the motor has enough power to spin the impeller at the desired speed. If you open the blower inlet, use larger duct, and a low-resistance cartridge filter, you will move more air, and the motor will draw more current to produce the needed power. (More air means more current, so you can use this change to evaluate modifications.) If it draws too much, the motor could burn out, and only in that case would a larger motor of the same speed be useful. You can tell by measuring the current draw as you make modifications. As long as it remains within the range your motor can handle (it will) you don't need another motor.

[bolson]

5" is ideal for the HF, but it is darn near impossibe to get smooth PVC pipe for runs. 5" flex hose just shoots yourself in the foot as far as airfow besides being expensive.

Also with 5" you will have a very hard time finding dust ports that size.

I have a 6" modified blower cover with a wynn canister filter and get excellent airflow, so much so that I have to keep pencils and pens away from an open outlet or they disappear.

[BostonBullit]

All I can add to this is that if you stick with 4" hoses then you can use a trashcan separator. I'm currently running a 3ft 4" hose from one port of the inlet (other is capped) into the separator and then have a 16' or so run of 4" that hooks to the tools. I've only setup a full 4" port for the jointer and planer so far, and use a 4"-->2.5" for the BT and bandsaw. you can see the diff when the reducer is on by just watching the top bag of the DC inflate, much faster with the full 4" open.

I plan on doing the Wynne conversion, running a 5" or 6" main, and then dropping 4"-5" at each tool in the near future; but I'm too busy doing actual woodworking projects right now to get into that

Peter

[Tool Fool]

I've had excellent results with the trash can separator. It does a great job stopping the chunks from hitting the impeller.

A few years back I read an article in a mag about someone who had added some length to their impeller blades by welding steel pieces to the ends. You'd be limited by the amount of space in the housing, but has anyone ever tried this or considered it? What ramifications would there be?

[LCHIEN]

quote:Originally posted by LarryG

quote:Originally posted by LCHIEN

quote:The 4" ducts on the HF 2HP are the weak point -starving the air flow. The best upgrade for this DC is 5" ducts.

Even better than the Wynn's conversion?

well depends on whether you want to clean air or to move air.
When I said Best I was really referring to moving air.
My preference has been: Clean the air (I got a cartridge filter) and the air flow is good enough for now (I have 10 ft 4" flex hose).

quote:
One objection to going to 5" hose (I have no "ducts," per se) would be modifying the ports on all my tools to accept that size. OTOH I guess that's something that has to be done sooner or later so perhaps it might as well be right now. (But most of my tools are new; I wonder what this sort of mod would do to the warranty?)

EDIT: Steve, I had the impeller cover plate off last night, removing part of the internal safety grating that jointer and planer shavings will clog up easily, and while I didn't measure it I would say that the impeller side of the 2-into-1 splitter is 5". Some people have made a new cover plate to open this up to 6", but I think they had installations where they wanted to run a 6" hard duct for a distance before they made any "drops" to individual machines.

Yeah the way other do it is to remove the Y and use 5" or replace the whole impellor cover one with 6" flange. The whole issue of plumbing a shop with 5" or 6" "plumbing" is quite exasperating, I'm thinking.

[JR]

As always this topic seems to confuse more than enlighten!

I'm starting to get my requirements straight in my mind. The setup will require a HF 2Hp unit, and more than 20' to get from one end of the <s>garage</s>/shop to the other.

Does this mean that the 6" pipe and impeller mod would be the recommended approach? Would 5" just not cut it?

JR

[bolson]

quote:Originally posted by JR

As always this topic seems to confuse more than enlighten!

I'm starting to get my requirements straight in my mind. The setup will require a HF 2Hp unit, and more than 20' to get from one end of the <s>garage</s>/shop to the other.

Does this mean that the 6" pipe and impeller mod would be the recommended approach? Would 5" just not cut it?

JR

What I did was run 6" s&d pipe along the floor along one wall into the DC. I then run 6" directly into the jointer and the planer, dual 4" to the BT (I put a new 4" port on the blade shroud and I have a 4" going to the guard) and eventually I will have dual 4" to the bandsaw (under the table and into the lower wheelhouse).

5" isn't really an option, because 5" PVC doesn't exist, thus with a canister you will be more than fine with 6". 6" s&d pipe ran be about $10 per 10' stick and I have 25' in total runs and never more than 15' from a machine to the collector. Fittings are the most expensive with a turn costing $15 (two 45 degree, sharp angles are bad). Wyes area also pricey at about $12 each, so in my installation, I tried to minimize these.

I replaced the blower cover with a MDF cover giving me a new 6" inlet to the DC. With this set up, I get excellent flow from the machines. The system actually sucks stray chips off the beds of my jointer up to 5" away from the cutter head when running.

My total installation cost...

$150 DC
$70 Wynn filter
$60 Ducting and fittings
$10 misc hardware for the filter conversion

[Tom Miller]

quote:Originally posted by bolson
What I did was run 6" s&d pipe along the floor along one wall into the DC.

Where did you get 6" S&D? I haven't seen it at HD or Menards. Is this stuff about 1/8" wall thickness?

Thanks,
Tom

[Jim Boyd]

quote:Originally posted by Tool Fool

I've had excellent results with the trash can separator. It does a great job stopping the chunks from hitting the impeller.

Same with my Jet.

[JR]

quote:Originally posted by bolson

My total installation cost...

$150 DC
$70 Wynn filter
$60 Ducting and fittings
$10 misc hardware for the filter conversion

Hmmm, I've got to get this going.....

[bolson]

I got 6" s&d from Carter lumber in Monroe, MI. It is kind of tricky finding, but if you check with irrigation supply, lansscakpe supply, plumbing supply etc. you should be able to find it in your area. You can also special order it from Mcmaster or the big boxes. It is commonly used for lanscape drainage. Oddly enough, Menards sells fittings for 6" s&d but doesn't sell the pipe itself. An afternoon checking your yellow pages should get you results.

BTW what is you location and maybe I could help yo track some down?

Brad