I give you Frankenvac (and ask a question ;-)

[cgallery]

A couple of weeks ago I purchased an Inca 410 (343.132) combination jointer/planer, which I have been lovingly tuning. With blades that I've Scary Sharpened (can see myself :-) and patiently set, this little beauty puts a glass finish on anything I throw at it. More about that in a future post.

I've been using bt3central for some time, and I've read a number of times that the shavings from a well-tuned jointer/planer can really eat-up the capacity of a shop vac. I use a shop vac for dust collection because: (1) I have one. (2) I have little space. (3) Only do occasional work. (4) Never had a jointer/planer to worry about.

My tools up until now have been my table saw and only within the last six months or so did I had a router table extension. With really only two items needing the shop vac, I was content to switch the hose from one to the other. Took a little more time, but what the heck.

However, with the arrival of the Inca, I realized I would have another tool change for the hose, and that I might be replacing a lot of bags in the shop vac (which I use because w/o them the filter clogs-up something fierce).

So I built the Frankenvac this weekend (see picture). It is a plastic storage bin with four blast-gates and a dust port. It fits under the saw (which was a wasteland until now). I still have to build my brackets to hold it securely (just using a couple of straps of wood now), but I can now keep all the tools connected, turn their dust collection on/off quite easily, and perhaps most importantly, catch the big chips in the cheap plastic box that I can empty w/o having to pay for another shop vac bag.

It works quite well, I ran some stuff in the jointer and it collected on the bottom quite nicely. So I decided to really see how well it worked and took the full bag out of the shop vac, broke it open, and used a hose through the Frankenvac to suck it all back in. Most of it stayed in the bottom of the Frankenvac. Some of it (very fine stuff) went back into the shop vac.

I noticed that, when I was done with my test, and just left the vac running with no more dust to feed it, that the turbulence of the air would pick up the finest dust on the bottom and send it back to the shopvac. Kinda fun to watch. Glad I used a clear box.

I've read (I think) that some people put water on the bottom of their tornado dust separators to keep the fine stuff in them. Does that work? Does bacteria form, or do you add something to kill it? Doesn't the water just evaporate, especially with all the air passing through?

Due to the noise, I don't really run the vac when I'm not running a tool. So whatever fine stuff gets picked-up during short periods of cutting, etc., probably won't amount to much. I just want to optimize.

Also, I also read I think that some people pull a woman's nylon thingy over their filters to prevent them from getting clogged. Does that work very well? Once the filter gets clogged the vac doesn't suck very well. If I can avoid buying bags, I'm all for that.

So to recap my questions: (1) Should I add water. (2) Should I raid my wife's undergarment drawer?

Thanks,
Phil

[LCHIEN]

If the hoses ever get plugged or you close all the blast gates, does the box, oh 'scuse me, the "Frankenvac" just get totally crushed or at least the sides pull in from the lid and break the vacuum??

[cgallery]

:-)

Good question! I plugged the hose a couple of times when I was fast-feeding it sawdust. The box withstood the vac just fine. I purchased some clear sealant to use around the blast gates. But I did a dry-assembly first and found: (1) They don't leak during normal use. (2) They leak when something is plugged. PERFECT! No Frankenblackhole.

It works remarkably well, and cost only a little more than purchasing one of those five-gallon separators at Rockler.

Thanks,
Phil

[Pappy]

Interesting twist on the chip separator idea. Never tried the water, so I can't offer an opinion on that, but the pantyhose prefilter does help keep the vac filter going longer. You need to 'pop' the prefilter occasionally to knock the sawdust off it.

[crokett]

Hmm... I might have to try that idea. I have the 5gal separator, got that as a gifit and it is useless. An ordinary 5 gal bucket is not big enough. Maybe I will take 2 buckets and make a taller one.

[LCHIEN]

as for the pantyhose idea,
i think the bigger ships get caught in the pleats of an unprotected vac filter, they are then hard to plow out because they are wedged in and have little sharp edges that act as barbs.

Uisng the PH prefilter theoretically keeps the big chips out of the pleats making it easier to clean up.

I believe it works.

[jackellis]

Very clever idea. Using water to trap and hold dust isn't worth the hassle. If you spill it makes a mess.

What's the capacity of your shop vac? I'm now thinking about doing essentially the same thing and dispensing with a dust collector, which takes up more room than I want to sacrifice.

Another, related question for others:

What kind of fan and motor arrangement do the commercial dust collectors use? I have an extra furnace blower and it seems like I could use it to move air through an arrangement like Phil's, with additional filtration between the plastic tub and the blower to cut down on dust migration.

[cgallery]

A couple of observations and updated pics. First, a couple of days ago I added a sort of "snorkel" made from a block of wood to make certain the connection to the shop vac would only suck from the top 1/2" or so of the box I'm using. Since doing this, I no longer have a problem where the shop vac constantly "scrubs" the smaller particles from the box.

Since there has been a discussion about MDF and dust collection in another thread, I decided to route some MDF so I could observe what would happen to about the smallest dust particles I'll ever encounter. I wouldn't have been surprised to see them all get sucked right through the separator box and into the shop vac. To my delight, this didn't happen. In fact not only did they settle on the bottom of the separator, continuing to run the vac didn't scrub them, either.

So the Frankenvac is now a permanent addition to my shop. It works as both a chip separator AND a manifold that allows me to easily switch from tool to tool. It also gives me an extra port on the front and back to add a hose when needed for my hand-held sander and for shop clean-up.

[JSUPreston]

Do you guys know if they sell the hoses and blast gates at Lowe's/HD? If so, I might want to give something like this a try at home. Looks like it would work better in my shop than a dedicated DC. (don't have a floor layout that would allow a DC-dang support posts!)

[cgallery]

Do you guys know if they sell the hoses and blast gates at Lowe's/HD? If so, I might want to give something like this a try at home. Looks like it would work better in my shop than a dedicated DC. (don't have a floor layout that would allow a DC-dang support posts!)

I'm using the 2.5" blast gates from Rockler. They didn't have them at Woodcraft, and I imagine they wouldn't sell them at Lowes or Home Depot.

Thanks,
Phil

[JSUPreston]

Thanks. I can't remember, but did you give a cost estimate? Not trying to be nosey, but money is tight at my house, just like I imagine it is at a lot of homes right now. I'm wondering if I could do this cost effectively right now or if I should wait.

[vanguard]

Looks like under $40 for the basics without hoses. Add a plastic storage bin plus the following (priced via the Rockler Website):

Your Shopping Cart
Quantity Item # Item Price Total Delete

63547 2-1/2'' Blast Gate
Stock Status: In Stock 4 x $4.29 $17.16


92031 Universal Dust Port - 2-1/2'' O.D. 2-1/4'' I.D.
Stock Status: In Stock 1 x $5.89 $5.89


Subtotal: $23.05
Standard Shipping (Orders of $20.01 to $40.00): $7.99
Sales Tax (MN residents add 6.5%):
$0.00
Total: $31.04

[cgallery]

I was lucky and didn't have to pay shipping (local Rockler store). So my total cost for the entire project was about $30 (including the Rubber Maid box I used). I think Rockler charged me less for the blast gates than what is listed on the web page. I can't find my receipt, though, and don't know if I got a qty. discount for five or if they just screwed-up or if they were on sale.

Things to keep in mind:
(1) The box top has to seal completely.
(2) You have to have a way to cut holes in the box. I used a carbide-tipped hole saw that I already had. It worked perfectly. But I imagine a non carbide-tipped would work just as well. After all, this is pretty soft plastic. I drilled a 3/16" pilot hole for the 1/4" pilot bit of the hole saw. I drilled this 3/16" hole w/ a brad-point bit. This allowed me to get the hole saw in just the right spot each time. I also used a 3/16" bit to drill four holes in the edges of each blast gate (have to go all the way to the edge to prevent interfering with the operation of the unit) and corresponding holes in the box.
(3) Keep the ports as close to the top of the unit as possible, to maximize the amount of room for chips/dust to settle. Select a box that allows placement of the ports near the top.
(4) If you're going to keep it under the saw and want to use a somewhat shallow box like mine (which I think about about 14" high), adding a "snorkel" made out of a piece of plywood will give you more usable depth.

If someone else makes one, make sure to let me know how it works for you. And if you figure out a better way to make it, let me know that, too! BTW, I found my Rubber Maid box at Target.

Thanks,
Phil

[dlminehart]

Really ingenious, Phil! I think there'll be a few more of these around before long!

[codaman33]

festool vacuum and this system

What do you folks think about hooking up a festool vacuum to this sort of system? Would it work? Any thoughts.