Best value Tablesaw blade?

[radhak]

Hi,

I am a newbie woodworker. I bought the Ryobi BTS20R a couple of months ago, and have been using it as a weekend activity. Along the way I chanced upon a pair of "carbide tipped" tablesaw blades at BigLots for $8 for the pair ( ! ) , and went ahead and bought it (yes, i know, greed overcame caution at that point). I meant it to be just a trial thing while I hunted around for a nicer blade.

Long story short, I was trying to cut small panels out of a 4x8 plywood (5.2mm thick) last weekend with this cheap blade, and tripped the circuits a couple of times. I researched the net and found advice to the effect that
(a) the blade could be to blame
(b) my technique could be faulty - very likely, seeing that most probably I was pushing the plywood too fast, or was pushing it across the blade diagonally instead of along the blade, or both

Assuming that the circuit-tripping was only symptomatic of bigger problems, I switched the blade back to the stock blade from Ryobi, and took great care to correct my technique, and managed to not trip the circuit. So maybe it was me, or maybe it was the blade. But assuming I can learn to do it the right way, I do not want to risk my life and limb with bad blades any longer. I would like to buy some other blades that I would not be embarassed to own up to. At the same time, my tablesaw cost me $199, so buying a Forrest for around $95 somehow seems to be lopsided. And to top that, one particular review on Amazon severely warned that the Forrest blade(s) was not "anti-kickback".

So, time for some Advice from all you gurus : what blade? I did skim thru some prior discussions here, and read that a $29 Freud from HD was pretty good. Is it good from the BTS20R? And what is 'anti-kickback'? Is it important?

I use only commonly found wood (at HD, Lowes) like Pine, Cedar, Douglas Fir, or plywood (1/4", 1/2", 3/4") for my projects, which are general small household stuff, like a side table or a chair, etc.

thanks,
radhak

[mschrank]

Welcome to the forum!

I use a Freud thin-kerf combination carbide tipped blade most of the time...I don't know the model number off the top of my head, but it was around $30-$35 at HD. Works fine for what I do...actually gives a pretty clean cut.
I'm sure others will chime in with specific blade recommendations.

One thing regarding technique...did I understand your post correctly in that you were ripping a full 4x8 sheet of plywood on your BTS20R? I'd not want to do that. I recommend cutting the sheet into rough dimension first with a circular saw, then make your final cuts on the TS. Just too hard to keep everything lined up when man-handling that big sheet...I think that's what was causing your circuit tripping problems. Even with a nice big iron top TS, I'd still be inclined to rough cut the panel...unless I had acres of infeed, side, and outfeed support.

[Wood_workur]

Okay, blades are a trickey subject, so it might be hard to get "the perfect blade", but you will get close.

What Freud are you talking about? Freud makes hundered of blades, and I have no clue which one you are talking about. If it is the TKR406 or a TK406, then you have a good general purpose blade there, that will rip crosscut, and works well in plywood. (that blade is very similar to the stock blade on a bt3100). A good ripping blade for what you are talking about is the TKR306, or one of what Freud calls "Glue line rip" blades, where the finish is ready for a glue up, with no jointing needed. For crosscutting, and plywood, a TKR806 will be what you want. There is a member on the woodnet forums that works for Freud, that is really knowledgeable on Freud sawblades.

And one last tip, for reading the model numbers on freud blades, the TK stands for think kerf (3/32" as opposed to the normal 1/8". I use Thin kerf blades with no problems.), the R stands for red coating, which is anti-stick, and used when cutting resounous woods, such as pine, to keep the blade cleen from saw dust and sap, the 80, or 40, or what not, is the model of the blade, and finally, the 6 is the diameter of the blade, which in this case is 10".

Sorry for my bad grammer.

[sweensdv]

The Freud Diablo Series blades found at HD are more of a carpentry blade than a woodworking blade but they will work. One downside is that you will have to do more prep work with your pieces before you can apply a finish to them if you use lesser blades. BTW, from your description, it sounds to me like your breaker tripping problem was caused by feeding the stock to quickly into the blade. Two blades that you might want to consider are the Freud LU84R011 full kerf combination blade or the LU83R010 thin kerf combination blade. The LU84 sells for around $60 and the LU83R for about $50.

Kickback often happens when the workpiece you're feeding through the saw is being improperly fed through the blade. What usually happens is the workpiece will be pinched between the fence and the blade causing the workpiece to be grabbed by the blade and flung back at the operator. With a proper feeding technique and blade height will greatly reduce the risk of kickback. Use of a splitter and blade guard is also a help in preventing kickback and is always recommended.

[AlanJ]

(b) my technique could be faulty - very likely, seeing that most probably I was pushing the plywood too fast, or was pushing it across the blade diagonally instead of along the blade, or both

I'll let other more knowledgable offer blade advice, but if you are starting out with a full 4x8 sheet, then IMHO this is more likely to be the problem than the blade quality. There's no way you can manhandle a 4x8 sheet on this type of TS and feed it cleanly across the blade. The blade is binding in the cut and causing the trip. On a smaller size piece you'd get kickback - I suspect you are being saved from that by the size and weight of the plywood.

[meika123]

What he said.

Dave in NC

[jackellis]

One thing regarding technique...did I understand your post correctly in that you were ripping a full 4x8 sheet of plywood on your BTS20R? I'd not want to do that. I recommend cutting the sheet into rough dimension first with a circular saw, then make your final cuts on the TS. Just too hard to keep everything lined up when man-handling that big sheet...I think that's what was causing your circuit tripping problems. Even with a nice big iron top TS, I'd still be inclined to rough cut the panel...unless I had acres of infeed, side, and outfeed support.

I have a BT3100 and ripping or crosscutting long stock was difficult, unsafe and resulted in poor quality cuts using the saw table alone. Then I picked up two stands - one a roller and the other a Ridgid swivel top - which I use for both infeed and outfeed support. They made a world of difference in both quality of cut and safety.

Also, please use your saw guard and riving knife. I have no use for the pawls and need to cut mine off (or better still, buy a Shark Guard), but that spinning blade scares the **** out of me. Unlike flying, where swapping tall tales about close calls seems to be a favorite pasttime, we don't like hearing about injuries in these forums.

[Knottscott]

Freud often gets best bang for the buck recommendations around these boards, and IMHO their best value offering is the LU86R010 40T TK general purpose blade. From Amazon it's $36 delivered. The "L" series is a step up the line from their Diablo and Avanti/TK series, with larger teeth and harder carbide, and basically manufactured to higher standards...$7 well spent over the Borg selection. It'll handle a wide range of tasks from ripping moderately thick stock, to crosscutting, and sheet goods, and cuts very cleanly. I bought this blade as a back up for my Forrest WWII during the recent Amazon frenzy, and am really impressed. I think it cuts better than my LU84 and Leitz 50T combo did.

Sometime you may want to pick up an aggressive 24T ripping blade for really thick wood.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=228013

[steve-u]

The Freud TK306 is a great all around affordable blade that goes for around $28 at Lowes. It is think kerf and has 40 teeth. Also make sure that the blade clears the workpiece by around 1/4 inch at the top arc of the blade. As others have said trying to cut too large a piece can be problematic especially without proper supports. --- Steve

[drumpriest]

I take exception to the fact that the inexpensive freud blades from HD are more for carpentry than woodworking. You can get some very nice cuts out of them, they typically just won't last as long. I have used a 24T ripping blade from HD for projects that are fairly fine woodworking.

I'm not saying that the higher priced blades arn't better, but Freud's "cheap" blades are pretty darned good!

[radhak]

Wow, quite a lot of responses (and even one PM) , all pretty useful! This is a mighty helpful and friendly forum, I should say!!
Thanks everybody for all very practical suggestions.

Now that you point out, cutting a large plywood panel has been pretty painful; using a circular saw first makes great sense : the garage floor is much more expedient (and stable) than an 17 x 30 bench TS top...

Other questions that come up are - what is the ideal number of teeth? I don't want to be swapping blades between rip and cross cuts, so is 40 good, or 60? and for a less-powered saw like the BTS20R, is thin-kerf a problem?

And what is the average 'life' of a blade? For a weekend hobbyist, i can expect to use a blade for - what, a year? two?

thanks,
radhak

[LCHIEN]

Wow, quite a lot of responses (and even one PM) , all pretty useful! This is a mighty helpful and friendly forum, I should say!!
Thanks everybody for all very practical suggestions.

Now that you point out, cutting a large plywood panel has been pretty painful; using a circular saw first makes great sense : the garage floor is much more expedient (and stable) than an 17 x 30 bench TS top...

Other questions that come up are - what is the ideal number of teeth? I don't want to be swapping blades between rip and cross cuts, so is 40 good, or 60? and for a less-powered saw like the BTS20R, is thin-kerf a problem?

And what is the average 'life' of a blade? For a weekend hobbyist, i can expect to use a blade for - what, a year? two?

thanks,
radhak

40 is usually the teeth for a general purpose blade (ripping and crosscutting.)

probably a year, varies greatly depending on how heavy usage is and what you cut and your sensitivity to increased feeding force and tearout.

Definately cutting a big panel on a small saw contributed greatly to your blade lockup/binding problems.

I have this criteria I use to evaluate any cut -
Big wood, keep wood stationary use moving cutter. E.g. handheld circular saw, miter saw (blade moves up and down) handheld router.

Small wood, keep tool stationary and move wood E.g. Router table, table saw, etc.

[Knottscott]

The ideal number of teeth varies with the type of cut and material, but for wood IIRC, there should be ~ 3-5 teeth in the wood for ripping and 5-7 teeth in the wood for crosscutting using a 10" blade. Typical 10" dedicated rip blades have 24 teeth and use a flat top grind (FTG) and an aggressive 20 -25 degree hook angle to plow through thick stock efficiently....not the cleanest cutting blade on the market but they do have a place. Typical crosscut blades have 60-80 teeth, use an alternate top bevel grind (ATB), and have a negative to low hook angle. Enter the general purpose blade to the equation....typically 40T with an ATB grind and a moderately steep hook...often 15-20 degrees. Obviously the dedicated blades handle the extremes of the cutting ranges slightly better than a general purpose blade, but the better GP blades will do a surprisingly good job without having to change out the blades for every cut. It's a matter of preference for most people....I definitely prefer the GP blades and am getting great results from them.

There are also specialty crosscut blades with high tooth counts and Hi-ATB grinds for ultrafine crosscuts, veneered sheetgoods, and melamine, like the Forrest Duraline and Freud LU80. I don't use alot of sheetgoods and don't feel the need to invest in a specialty blade. If you look hard enough, you can probably find a specialty blade for just about every cutting application.