Building a new house & new shop - HELP!

**LCHIEN** · 06-03-2005, 09:21 PM

I'd certainly add a couple more circuits.
For example, where's your air compressor plugged in? It can kick on at any time so it almost needs a circuit by itself. And one more in case you forgot something.

220V in the ceiling??? Probably more useful on opposite walls.

**Popeye** · 06-04-2005, 03:36 AM

Morning Gary,
1. A/C Can you get them to run a duct with a damper from the the main unit. Seems to me to be the easiest and simplest especially now.
2. I have the feeling changing trusses would add alot of expense but think about hanging overhead wood storage for lumber. Especially over the top of the garage door.
3. I'd insulate the dickens out of the place for both comfort and noise. The wall between the shop and the house needs as much noise reduction or more than the rest.
4. I'd put the 220 in the walls, probably on three walls.
5. Look for a spot for a compressor, maybe where the sink is. I think I'd dump the sink too. Washing your hands and then shaking off sawdust walking to the bathroom doesn't get you many points with the "Boss"
5. I'd cover the walls with pegboard or better yet...plywood painted white.
Just a few thoughts....hope it helps. Congratulations on the new house and good luck. Pat

**kwgeorge** · 06-04-2005, 05:32 AM

Grizzly has a really nice shop layout program online that I have found to be very useful.
http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplann...1&site=grizzly

A good functional layout of your tools including those that you may not have yet but looking to add later is very important. This will help with the electrical layout as well as dust collection. I worked for many years in half the garage until I built my building. One thing that was really helpful then was have the table saw easily movable.

**GaryA** · 06-04-2005, 05:44 AM

Thanks Loring....forgot about the compressor. Right now I just have a pancake compressor, but sure I'll need a full size in the future. Pat - good point...on the AC, the HVAC contractor wont run a duct to the garage, because its an unfinished space & he said you risk bringing dust back into the main system (even though it would just be a supply and no return?) Thought about having them run a second return to my office which is on the opposing wall and move it after closing (?). Great idea on storage over the garage door. You guys don't think a sink is necessary? I'm just thinking that the closest bathroom is clear on the other side of the house...thought for finishing cleanup also (??).

**rbfunk** · 06-04-2005, 06:08 AM

Gary,since the plans show this as a garage / bonus room, is there no way to have it airconditioned along with the rest of the house? It might be easier to deal with filtering the return so that dust doesn't get back in to the rest of the house.
Regarding you electrical, I wish I had a seperate 20Amp curcuit for the current hogs. That is definetly the way to go. My old eyes dont see the subpanel on either drawing but it loooks like you could run circuits 3 &4 around 3 walls and use different color outlets to differentiate the curcuits. Oh, 6 feet is not to close together for outlets on the same curcuit even if the are movable. I'd make that my max if I were doing it. Voice of experiance.
Other then that, Good luck
Bob
I don't like where the sink is but, unlike Popeye, I think I'd try to keep it for rinsing brushes and car washing.
I don't know alot about roof trusses but I understand they are designed for the roof & ceiling load and not much more. You might want to ask about how mush weight you can attach uup there beofre you start storing wood.

**Popeye** · 06-04-2005, 06:33 AM

I was just thinking of space on the sink but understand the point. If I were building new and had the space I'd put in a deep sink and shower. Pat

**LarryG** · 06-04-2005, 07:02 AM

Have you considered doing away with the overhead door? They're more of a liability than an advantage in a dedicated shop, being hard to insulate, stealing way too much of your precious wall space, and the tracks are always in the way. If it were mine, I'd replace the OH door with a pair of walk doors.

EDIT, two more thoughts:

If it's not too late, get the shop slab poured FLAT. This would likely dictate doing away with the OH door, as I suggest, since a sloping floor is usually a code requirement in a garage. Ergo, you'd have to fix it such that there's no way the space can be used as a garage.

On the roof truss question, trusses can be designed to carry whatever load you want. It's just something the truss plant needs to know, so they can plug the appropriate numbers into their computer. Tell them your needs and they can spit out a design in minutes.

**JimD** · 06-04-2005, 02:26 PM

My shop is in an oversized one car garage (about 400 square feet). There is a utility sink in the utility room just off the shop that I use regularly. If the laundry is real close to your shop and has a utility sink you may not want one in the shop but if it isn't I think a sink is worth the space. Just make sure you get a utility sink that you don't care about the appearance (for when you clean out brushes and such).

I would loose the lumber storage - it can go up in the trusses - and put in a long bench for a CMS and/or Sliding CMS and/or radial arm saw. I have a 10 foot bench with both a radial arm saw and CMS on the same side support system with movable stops and a stick on measure. It is real nice to be able to do your crosscuts on a CMS or radial arm and your rips on the BT3100. I still crosscut on the BT sometimes but I frequently move back and forth and it's nice not to have to put the SMT on and off repeatedly (or fence on the SMT).

You will miss the wood storage but I have something like your picture and storage over the garage door and it still isn't enough. In a small shop I think you have to just buy the wood for the project you're working on and throw away your scraps unless you're willing to have them underfoot. I leave a mess until I get tired of it and then make a visit to the dump.

I would also keep the garage door. It will help resale a lot if you ever move and it will be nice for moving sheet goods in and larger projects out of the shop.

Jim

**BizCoach** · 06-04-2005, 06:59 PM

I have a very small and strangly shaped shop (2 small "rooms" connected w/ a narrow passage (8 wide by maybe 12 long). Here are some comments based on my experience.

I would love to have a long bench for a chop saw. If you have a long enough wall - do it.

Put everything on wheels. Make it all the same height so you can move them around for infeed / outfeed tables. The possible exception would be perhaps make them all the same height except for the long bench and make the bench high enough so your rolling tools fit under the bench. One of the magazines about a year back had a great article on this - even had a link to a video online about it. Can't find either of them now - sorry.

Do you really need a work bench? I know I'm bordering on blasphemy here. But I don't have one and haven't missed it. (disclaimer: I don't use hand planes so that might make a difference). I do have an assembly table. It's on wheels and the height is the same as my other tools. It's 30x60 - if I were doing it again I'd make it a tad smaller or better yet, make two smaller ones that hook together for a big job. I can clamp to it when I need to hold stuff down, but it doesn't have any built in vises and I don't miss them. I keep my shop vac underneath so it rolls around as well and doesn't take up any more floor space.

I also have a dust collector (a HF 1hp) that I hook up to one or two tools at a time. It is on wheels but it's a pain to move around in such a small shop, especially with a length of flex attached. I'm thinking of mounting it permanently in a corner - moving the intake to about 40" high and running a 10' length of 4" pipe along the two walls at that height. Then running about 4 wyes w/ blast gates on each length of pipe. Then I can hook some flex to each tool. That way I'll need less flex than I have now (which should increase my suction) I'll still be able to move tools around but it will be easier to keep a couple hooked up. Even though I'll only use one at a time it will make switching back and forth easier.

I don't have any 220v tools and am trying to avoid the expense of running 220 circuts. BUT if you're doing it when you build I suspect the extra expense would not be much. That would give you a lot more flexibility in tool purchase.

I'd ditch the overhead door (too hard to insulate and the overhead space would get in the way). If you're worried about resale value, keep the opening large enough to put a door in when you get ready to sell. I'd look at wooden sliding doors that hang on a track like you see on barns. Something like this but the appropriate size.

Just my 2 cents.

**BillW** · 06-04-2005, 08:08 PM

Gary,

May want to consider, instead of doing away w/ the garage door entirely, just framing for a garage door and then having them, inside that framing put some 2x4 framing for a double swing out door. That way if any future buyer, or you, wanted to use it as a garage all they would have to do is remove the double door, some drywall, siding and framing. Voila there would be a garage door frame right underneath ready to be trimmed out and have the garage door installed.

**Stick** · 06-05-2005, 12:43 AM

Put in 3 or 4 more 240 circuits than you think you'll ever need. I have 4 and I'm forever plugging and unplugging things. Think welder someday too. 240V Heater too if you live where it gets cold.
I see your lighting is on a separate circuit from your outlets, but I'd split it up over two circuits so it doesn't all go off at once should a breaker trip. I did mine so that no two adjacent outlets are fed from the same circuit. Put about 5 times as many 120 outlets as you think you could ever use too. Extension cords are a real PITA in a shop. Best thing I did was put an 8 foot power bar (they call them jiffy poles around here) with an outlet about every 8 inches across the wall at the rear of each bench. Did I say I hate extension cords? LOL! Have a welder circuit by the main door if you ever plan on welding, so you can work on something outside if need be, without having to buy very expensive extension cables. A fridge is great in a shop, so is a heated cabinet for finishes and glues if you live where it gets cold. I would LOVE to have a sink with running water in the shop! You can always make a lid so it can double as more counter space when it's not in use.

**lrogers** · 06-05-2005, 09:13 AM

Gary,
I'm going through the same thing now. The house will be ready to move into in about 2 1/2 weeks. To start, I'll be using the garage for the shop, then building a dedicated shop in the back yard as time & money permit. I'm not going to change anything in the garage, I'll just make due. A/c is the only exception. I've seen a portable 9,000 BTU job that rolls and vent to the out side like a dryer (hose to an exhuast plate that fits the window). It appears very non-intrusive from the outside (a must since deed restrictions won't allow a window unit) and is big enough to take care of the shop when built.
I am also considering a scissor truss arrange when I built the shop.
I'll be strapped for power in the garage, but I'll make due.
At the request of the landscape contractor, my son and I staked out the approximate location of the shop yesterday so they won't lay sod in that area. Things are FINALLY moving into the home stretch for me.
Good luck with your shop.

**Deadhead** · 06-05-2005, 12:34 PM

You'll definitely want a deep laudry sink in one of the garages. Since the single will be your dedicated shop, it would make more sense to put it in the double. That's probably where yard tools and car washing items will be stored. A sink it the shop would be good for cleaning brushes, etc.

How high is the ceiling? Here, garage ceilings are usually 11 or 12 feet high. Would your surface-mount or hang them?

**GaryA** · 06-05-2005, 01:44 PM

Thanks for all the great input guys....as for some of the comments:
1. Air conditioning that space and leveling the slab would require that I convert it to a "finished" space (insulated, raised floor, flooring, entry doors (i.e. frnch doors) or windows & brought into the HVAC system). The expense for doing this as a finished "bonus room" was about $8000 (crazy, I know...but it is then part of your house).
2. I thought about ditching the OH door, but then I start getting into deed restriction issues that the 2 garage doors don't match, and I thought it would be great for load/unload of sheet goods & finished products.
3. Trusses - still waiting for them to price out a different arrangement to see if its worth it to maximize overhead storage. I think I already know the answer, but can I do anythign about this after the fact (i.e. rebuild the trusses after they are installed) or am I getting into issues because of the engineered design?
4. I like the idea of a long bench for CMS/RAS and keeping everything same height as well as overhead lumber storage above OH door> Even thought about maybe doing a smaller version of this for vertical sheet goods storage (see first picture: http://www.diynet.com/diy/wk_plannin...275270,00.html
5. Larry - I wish I had a back yard to do what you're doing as far as a custom shop....unfortunately (not like its a bad thing) my pool will be my back yard. Good luck with the house & shop!
6. I've seen the portable AC units, and think that may be my only option as you said with deed restrictions, just venting it out of the wall - definitely will need it in the brutal Florida heat....also need on that will heat as well for our short (but pretty cold) winter.
7. The garage ceiling height is 9' 4" (without any modification to trusses)

Thanks again guys...I've incorporated many of your suggestions into final design and I think I have a pretty good handle now on the electrical so I can lay it out for the contractor this week. I'm still open for any and all suggestions!!

Building a new house & new shop - HELP!

Building a new house & new shop - HELP!

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