New LED tubes

[LCHIEN]

I haven't had to replace any shop lights recently, or install any new ones.

I do have a office/study that is lit with indirect fluorescent tubes a dual bulb 4-foot fixture laying on it back in a box on top of my 6' bookshelves. (I have high 9' ceilings).

I Was cleaning and refurbishing my office and I realized that I have had that fixture for about close to 30 years and have never replaced the bulbs or ballasts. I am sure that is is a magnetic ballast T12 fixture at that age. I haven't climbed the ladder to look at it. Weirdly, its been on a lot, but the ballasts have not failed, nor the bulbs. Being upside down, thermally better dissipation maybe?




Anyway I was contemplating a replacement with LEDs and looked up LED tubes.
I saw 1000 Bulbs has $8 (single unit price) tubes with switches for selecting 12/15/18 watts for 1500 to 2300 lumens and another slide switch providing choice of 5 color temperature from 3000 to 6500 K


That's a remarkable improvement since the last time I dealt with LED tubes.

I don't really need to use the old fixture at all, I just need eight T8 tombstones and some wire and a junction box inside my wood four sided box.

[Jim Frye]

Price?

[LCHIEN]

As I mentioned, they were about 8 bucks single qty.

[cwsmith]

I purchased a carton of ten of these near the end of October of last year. These are branded "Sunco" and at the time were priced at $69.99. Presently they are $83.99. Here is the link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D7K6MBLL

I had been having trouble with a couple of fixtures in my basement. seems that conventional florescents were a probem with constantly flickering. i spotted these on Amazon and they work very well. I haven't had a single problem since the day I installed them! (A lot cheaper than changing the ballast or the whole fixture.)

They are slightly dimmer than the lights in my office area, but in the pantry and basement library area they work fine.

CWS

[LCHIEN]

ChatGPT said:


Good question — here’s a clear comparison of light output (lumens) for common 4-foot fluorescent and LED replacement tubes.

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4 ft T12 Fluorescent (F40 Cool White)

• Typical power: 40 W
• Light output: ~2,600–3,200 lumens (varies with brand/age)
• Efficacy: ~65–80 lumens/watt
• Note: T12s are older tech, less efficient, and lumen output declines significantly with age.

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4 ft T8 Fluorescent (F32)

• Typical power: 32 W
• Light output: ~2,800–3,200 lumens
• Efficacy: ~85–100 lumens/watt
• Smaller diameter (1" vs 1.5" for T12) with improved phosphors and efficiency.
• Holds brightness better over lifetime compared to T12.

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4 ft LED Tubes (T8 LED Replacements)

• Typical power: 15–18 W
• Light output: ~1,800–3,500 lumens, depending on model and color temperature.
• Efficacy: 100–150 lumens/watt (much higher efficiency than fluorescent).
• Light distribution is more directional (usually ~120–180°) instead of 360° like fluorescents, so fewer lumens may look brighter in use.
• Lifespan typically 25,000–50,000 hours (vs 10,000–20,000 for fluorescent).

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Quick Comparison Table

T12 F40 Cool White	40 W	2,600–3,200	65–80	Old tech, lower efficiency
T8 F32 (standard)	32 W	2,800–3,200	85–100	More efficient, still common
LED T8 replacement	15–18 W	1,800–3,500	100–150	Long life, directional, efficient

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✅ Bottom line:

• A T8 puts out about the same light as a T12, but uses ~20% less power.
• A good LED tube can match or exceed the light of either fluorescent while using roughly half (or less) the energy.

[LCHIEN]

Here's my remarkably old 33 years T12 F40 magnetic ballast shop light fixtures used for indirect lighting in my study. Redoing the study so I don't want to put it back being that old. Overdue to fail and low efficiency.



got four new LED tubes, 10-22W adjustable, 3000-6000K temperature adjustable.
Will toss the old fixtures, don't want to do a conversion as it has old wiring, T12 tombstones, ballast. And I don't need the reflector. Fluorescent tubes emit light 360° but LED emit 100% of light into 180°.
made a small wood frame of scraps, installed 8 tombstones.
Old T12 Fluorescent fixture: The meter said it drew 108W even though it was rated 80 and it was doubtlessly degraded lower than initial light output after 30 years use.

I set the new fixture LED Tubes to 18W, 4000K. My kill-a-watt meter says 75W.
Label and slide switches for setting.

[LCHIEN]

Last note - Engineer in me makes me measure these things.



So in Summary, I am getting about four times the light for less power.

[LCHIEN]

One thing about LEDs, for the same Lumens (remember that Lumens is the total light output in all directions) the Fluorescent tube will output equally in a 360 degree pattern around the tube while the LED outputs all its light into a roughly 180 degree spread. While a reflector will turn around some of the light going the wrong direction in a fixture, its takes room, it is not 100% efficient and its own shadow gets in the way of some of it, so much of the backwards directed light is lost. Making LEDs more efficient per lumen emitted being usable.

[leehljp]

One thing to watch for on LED lightening, especially in workshop areas where "finishing" are taking place - Different LED bulb lines and mfg'ers place the little square LED sectors at different lengths APART. When the finish color and especially surface smoothness are necessary, tiny imperfections that are in the finish become difficult to see with LED squares 6 to 8mm apart. The distance between the LED squares becomes critical or at least the tube diffusion becomes critical. A 4ft long LED with the LEDs spaced 1/4" or 6 mm apart will have 192 of the LED squares. Without the correct diffusion, the glossy shine on what ever one is looking at, there will be 192 points of light reflecting. This pica-pica reflection of EACH square hides from the eye any tiny imperfections that can be seen outside in daylight.

In pen making the difference in a good pen and a perfect pen is in the very tiny imperfections that one has or does not have. The difference in price can be as much as $100 to $200 in ball point type pens and much much higher in fountain pens.

There are LED shop lights that do not have the pica-pica dots of light reflecting off of shiny objects. Early on, LEDs were almost solid from one end to the other. Then they found out solid or 2 - 3 mm spacing were not necessary for most uses and moved them to 6 to 8 mm apart. I personally don't like those.

[LCHIEN]

The tubes I got, I didn't realize until I received them, are available with clear or frosted diffusers.
The frosted diffusers are supposed to make a softer light but slightly less lumens. I presume the frosted diffuser solves the problem Hank describes?

[leehljp]

Yes it "usually" does and with the diffuser, they can control color hue from changing even with the lessening of the lumens. That is not a major problem in most shops or even homes, but where even slight differences of colors matter - artistic situations, remodeling stores - curtains, carpets, upholstery, painting and more - the right light temp is necessary. And the lighting people make adjustments when installing them in the stores.

[LCHIEN]

the ones I have look like two rows of LEDs per tube, probably 96 per row spaced 1/2" apart and 1/2" between rows.
One row the LEDs have an whiteish appearance and the other a yellow appearance. I noted as I changed the Color temperature selector while powered, that the cooler temperature settings intensified the white row while diminishing the yellow row; it went the other way when selecting a warmer color.

[cwsmith]

When I bought my work shed about seven or eight years ago, I installed Sunco-brand shop lights, four in all. They are four foot long fixtures with two tube in each and are linkable. The tubes are built-in to the fixtures and you ordered the light temperature for your own needs.

I do not care for the normal 5,000 K, preferring the less harsh (to my eyes) 4,000 K instead.

They don't flicker, fully light immediately (no warm up time), and they work well in both these hot summers and cold winters of NY.

The tubes illuminate a full 360 degrees and work well with the traditional style metal reflectors. They came with mounting hardware and pull chains should you wish o turn off the individual fixtures. Again, these tubes illunate 360 degrees and appear not to have refectors on the individual LED's, though because of the frosted tubes, I cannot distinguish individual LED's or hot spots withig the tubes

Similarly, as mentioned earlier, I purchased a ten pack of Sunco-brand individual LED tubes that feature adjustable color temperatures. These also illuminate 360 degrees and do not rely on a reflector withing the tube. I simple replaced the florescent tubes in my basement, which were all too prone to flickering.

CWS

[leehljp]

I helped install 20 wide panels in a church two years ago and the color could be controlled by a smart phone over the WiFi system. Only problem was they had no wifi system. Very Rural. Only one bar is all I could get on my phone so needless to say, what came on is what they got. 19 were 5000K one was 4000K and noticeable. I called in a younger buddy with a MiFi system and he couldn't get it to change to 5000K. We took it back and got another one and it worked.

And installing it was not easy as the one guy with an 20 ft ladder moved to another state. We finally got it done and OSHA was not there. We did have nearly a dozen people holding the ladder and one brave soul.

[LCHIEN]

Many phones have a built in Wifi Hot spot. Are you familiar with that?

Your phone's data connection can be a internet hotspot with a SSID and password - convenient in a car or airport waiting room when you want to share with some tablet and laptop users. Or if you need to use your laptop somewhere remote.

Some plans include it some plans its a small fee. And of course if you pay for cellular data usage, it can cost you if all your users are watching streaming. Not to bad if they are googling and or e-mailing or setting up a network device.

On my android, its settings>Connections>Mobile Hotspot and Tethering to configure it.

[leehljp]

YEs, I have been using the hot spot for the last 10 years, but when I get to 1 bar - using hot spot does NOT work in the normal time frame. Minutes and Minutes to see any kind of connection. IF it doesn't start working within 1 minute, I look for an alternative as I don't have the patience to wait and wait and wait. As I said, that was VERY rural. The phone works "sometimes" and not just mine or not just iPhones. That was the reason I had a guy try MIFi. We (the other guy and me) thought we might be getting some interference with the other 19 lights that were on. The instructions were very vague - like something translated, which it was. The easiest plan was replacing.

[LCHIEN]

oh, ok. not that there's no wifi, but no cell signal as well as no internet WAN connection.

People tend to throw around the terms internet, wifi and cell service as if they are the same thing but they are not.