Graphite marking blade for Utility knives

[LCHIEN]

Anyone seen these?

http://www.woodpeck.com/accutraxpencilblade.html

Graphite based marking "blades" that fit utlilty knives but mark fine lines along straight edges instead of cutting.

It was intriguing so I ordered some.

at .025" thick or .635mm they are a hair wider than my 0.5mm mechanical pencils I use now, but, they are skinny to side loads but thick in the direction of marking so they may break less, I'm hoping.

[radhak]

I'd seen this quite a while ago, and have been wondering if it would be good, but thought that price was a bit too steep. Your post pushed me to search, and found this selling at $5.50 at LeeValley (and the Manufacturer website says it sells at HomeDepot at the same price), which would be more palatable.

After getting fed up with regular pencils, I'm ready for this now.

[LCHIEN]

I'd seen this quite a while ago, and have been wondering if it would be good, but thought that price was a bit too steep. Your post pushed me to search, and found this selling at $5.50 at LeeValley (and the Manufacturer website says it sells at HomeDepot at the same price), which would be more palatable.

After getting fed up with regular pencils, I'm ready for this now.

i got an e-mailed offer of two packs of 3 each for $10. but the sale is over now.

[cwsmith]

I saw those advertised with Lee-Valley not too long ago. While they look like they'd do the job, it left me wondering how really practicle they would be in the long run; as they appear (to me) like they might break easily.

You findings after some use will be interesting.

I do have several 0.5mm Pentel's, but my preference is for my my old drafting pencil (lead holder) as it works the best for me here in the shop. Fortunately I have a good stock of leads in a variety of hardnesses (or softnesses if you prefer). Lee-Valley sells these also, but I think their price is somewhat high. The 0.5mm is too fragile for wood marking IMO and the old-style lead holder with it's 0.80 x 5" lead can be sharpened to exactly the point one needs; sharp or blunt point, chisel wedge, etc. I would think the lead holder itself would be far more comfortable to use for marking when compared to a utility knife.

These can usually be found at your local art supply store. Here's a link and description: http://www.dickblick.com/products/st...r/#description

Thanks for the post,

CWS

[radhak]

FWIW, I did not find the Accutrax at HD today.

CWS, hows that lead-holder different from a mechanical pencil (Pentel or otherwise)?

[BigguyZ]

Their store locator lists very specific HDs in only 3 states or so...

I really like the idea. I use my blade to do markings as it is, but this would be helpful for non-damaging marks.

I have a bostich double blade knife that I haven't been using as my go-to, as the mechanism sometimes jams (I've switched to a Greenlee knife that I got on sale that I love). Anyway, if you had something like that, you could use these blades and not need a second tool on the job site.

Too pricey at $4/ each, but nifty.

[LCHIEN]

FWIW, I did not find the Accutrax at HD today.

CWS, hows that lead-holder different from a mechanical pencil (Pentel or otherwise)?

Lead holders were standard for paper and pencil mechanical drawing at one time. A draughtsman (nice english spelling, eh?) might have a set, each loaded with a variety of lead hardnesses for different marking weights and or guidelines. Many of them were either pre-marked or had a window for indicating the lead grade. Most were unmarked, though,

a lead holder is a metal (usually) holder about the diameter of a pencil and having a button at the top and a serrated (to keep the lead from backing in under pressure) collet at the writing end. The lead which is usually about 5/64" (actually 2.0mm) is available in all hardnesses. Instead of inching the lead forward like a Pentel, the lead just drops out, you use your finger or the table as a stop for the length you want. When it's too short you throw away the stub and put a new piece of lead in it about 5" long. They were sold in 5- or ten-pack trays if I remember correctly. Most came unpointed. Obviously the lead is too thick for detail drawing without putting a point on it.

There's a variety of sharpeners for lead holders which are different from wood pencils which eat the holder; nice sharpeners had a rotating turret with the pencil opening to one side at a slightly off vertical angle and it rotated inside a ring of abrasive material to put a point on the end of the pencil. The cup below caught the graphite dust. It required frequent sharpening esp as you went to softer leads. There were of course other cheaper sharpeners including sandpaper blocks and cheap handheld devices with metal blades that shaved the lead (and the dust went everywhere and made a mess!) you rotated by hand to trim the lead to a sharp point.

Pentel mechanical pencils were a blessing and an advance because they presented a very thin lead (.5mm which is .02" or about 1/64th") which didn't need sharpening and had a much more consistent line width. It could be advanced with a single ratcheting click as opposed to having to releasing the collet and manually adjust the length. A stronger lead polymer compound for the lead, and the sliding sleeve for support I think were two key elements of the pentel design. The Pentel type also stored additional leads inside, which the lead holders did not, however the pentel leads are only about 2.5" long, but you can use them down to about 3/4". However, The internal lead storage allowed the pencils to feed a new lead when the old was used up. Pentels are also made in a 0.7mm dia. lead size for a little larger line but more durability. The one trick is that with the ratcheting collet located behind the sleeve, once the lead got down to the last 3/4" or so, it would not hold in place and has to be plucked out and tossed or a new lead fed in (from the internal magazine) until the old stub fell out.

This pencil is extended farther than it would be when you would use it.


Here's a sharpener and two pencils with new lead extended and after sharpening.


Here's a K&E sharpener - I coveted one of these when I was in school...

[LCHIEN]

I saw those advertised with Lee-Valley not too long ago. While they look like they'd do the job, it left me wondering how really practicle they would be in the long run; as they appear (to me) like they might break easily.

You findings after some use will be interesting.

I do have several 0.5mm Pentel's, but my preference is for my my old drafting pencil (lead holder) as it works the best for me here in the shop. Fortunately I have a good stock of leads in a variety of hardnesses (or softnesses if you prefer). Lee-Valley sells these also, but I think their price is somewhat high. The 0.5mm is too fragile for wood marking IMO and the old-style lead holder with it's 0.80 x 5" lead can be sharpened to exactly the point one needs; sharp or blunt point, chisel wedge, etc. I would think the lead holder itself would be far more comfortable to use for marking when compared to a utility knife.

These can usually be found at your local art supply store. Here's a link and description: http://www.dickblick.com/products/st...r/#description

Thanks for the post,

CWS

I think the 0.5mm pentel types work OK on finished, smooth wood where the marking is adequate with a light and steady controlled force, but on rough cut wood they're hard to see sometimes and the roughness catches on the lead and breaks them with the varying force going up and down the grain.

Maybe I shouldn't be trying to get accurate marking on rough cut wood, but I do a lot of work with rough cut fence board cedar for rusticky items that I still want the ends accurate even if the faces are rough cut.

[gerti]

0.5 mm pencils have always been my favorite writing instrument (besides a super-smooth fountain pen). I have a rather large collection of pencils...

While mostly geared to writing and drawing diagram rather than marking, my current favorite are the pencils with Kuru Toga mechanisms:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80k7Jl1o8Lc

Those really work. To me the most comfortable one is this model, which is only available as import:

http://www.amazon.com/Uni-Alpha-gel-Kurutoga-Pencil-0-5mm/dp/B003F0PPHU/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1396750254&sr=8-3&keywords=Uni+Alpha+Gel+Kuru+Toga

It is thicker and has a gel grip which makes it very comfortable to use.

[cwsmith]

radhak,

Loring's description is both excellent and very thorough.

My simple description of a "lead holder" is that it is basically a redesign of a wood pencil: About the same diameter, but made of metal, with a spring loaded tube running through the middle which holds a 0.80" stick of lead. When you press down the cap (where the eraser is on a wood pencil), it releases the four-jawed chuck (clutch) at the point end, which allows the lead to be released by gravity. (You insert a new lead stick from the point-end also.)

The "lead holder" is mostly a drafting instrument, but I find it ideal for shop work too.

In more than forty years as a technical illustrator I've only owned two of these. They are pretty much indestructable, at least in the drawing room, unlike a Pentel, which seems to not function very well if it gets dropped wrong.

My first was a Koh-I-Nor, and I still have it, though rather worn. I think my Staedler-Mars was purchased in the late 80's. They are slightly different in diameter, and require a change in guides on my mechanical pointer.

I've never kept count of my illustrations, but I quite imagine they easily exceed a thousand. Unfortunately, when one does this kind of thing for a living, they belong to the employer. I did keep the very first pencil illustration I did back in the summer of 1966; it was a card feed for an IBM 029 keypunch machine..... and, I have a digital copy of the last one, a concept for a ship-mounted gatling on a "phalenx" defence system.

Now my leadholders (and I) are retired to marking measurements in my little shop.

CWS

[LCHIEN]

CWS, do you sharpen them to a point or to a chisel for woodworking marking? I would think the points would be very fragile, if that's what you use.

[cwsmith]

Loring,

Actually, I make a blunt rounded point which gives me a line slightly thicker than a 64th of an inch. That proves to be very durable and with HB grade is very easy to see, yet erases easily and doesn't damage the wood.

I use my old (1966) Koh-I-Nor lead pointer, which is similar to the Staedler that you picture. Difference perhaps is that my pointer clamps to the table and thus is quick to use with one hand. A finer point can be had, but that of course is prone to breaking.

The pointer utilizes a steel cutter and has two depth gauges molded into the top to measure the extension needed for a particular point. I've long since stopped using those, as it's more just an experienced 'eye-ball' to get the point I'm used too.

I've never liked the 'wedge', although I'm sure some people do. Working on "the board", one learns to rotate the pencil as the line is being drawn in order to get a consistant line width and to maintain the lead point. You do this by rolling the the pencil between the thumb and forefinger as you make the long stroke. It very soon becomes natural.

Here are a few photos:

The first is a comparison of sorts... note on the left I've drawn two lines, the furthest left is a 0.5 mm line and just to the right of that is a line drawn with my lead holder; both are HB (hardness) leads. I've included the leads to compare the actual size. The blue leadholder is a Staedler, which can be purchased for less than $10. The red leadholder is my original 1966 Koh-I-Nor.

The second photo is my Koh-I-Nor pointer and the third photo shows a comparison of my preferred point (on the right) with that of a 0.5mm Pentel.

CWS

[lrr]

Wow, the K+E sharpener brings back old memories. I have not seen one of those since Drafting III in high school. I have one of the squarish tan ones (Koh-I-Noor). I seem to recall several "tops" besides the green one, for different diameter pencil bodies. And the "cigarette filter" cotton plug to clean the pencil lead dust after sharpening.

I'll have to find them. I also have a double-ended lead clutch which allows holding two hardnesses of lead. I recall 4H for construction lines, 2H for regualr drawing, and HB if I wanted heavier lines, text, etc.

Ahh, the good old days.

I do have a motorized drafting table (for height, angling is mechanical) with drafting arm, but it is missing the clear rules. It came from Lockheed-Martin, where that had rooms with a sea of drafting tables back in the 60s and 70s. My wife is using it sans arm (table that is, not hers!) for a sewing table...

Once I build a sewing table for her, the monster green top is coming off, replaced with a smaller wooden top,, and it will become a height adjustable assembly table in my shop.

[cwsmith]

Irr,

Good memory... that "green" insert in the Koh-I-Noor sharpener fits the Staedler and I have a 'red' insert which fits the old red Koh-I-Noor lead holder. It also came with a 'yellow' insert, but darned if I know what it might fit, as it is long ago lost somewhere.

I took "drafting" two or three years in high school (class of 62') but that couldn't get me a job anywhere. In 1965, I quite my job as a data maintenance clerk (IBM 1401 System), so I could get into a six-month night course in tool design (NY Manpower Development Training Act) and half-way through took a part-time morning job a technical illustrator. When the school finished, I just went full-time as an illustrator. I liked it a lot better than drafting, because you worked directly with engineers and usually with the equipment that you were illustrating, thus getting the whole picture, instead of just 'parts'.

I don't recall using different lead weights though in drafting. Usually we just modified the point to change the line width, IIRC. But as an illustrator, I mostly laid out my illustrations from orthographic prints, bills of material, actual assemblies (taking measurements), etc. I then passed on my layout to an "Inker", who would trace the layout onto blue drafting linen for publication. Back then, my preferred lead was a 5H... it was hard, didn't require sharpening as often, and didn't smudge as much. Do you remember using that old dusting powder or those "bags"?

I did have a double-ended holder, it was built more like a cheap X-acto knife though, only with a four-jawed clutch at each end. Nasty thing, I thought... good way to poke your eye out with a sharpened lead at each end. Mine was all aluminum and made by Grifhold (No. 131)..... I still have the thing!.

I'm sure you remember the so called 'drafting' machines, but I never could get used to one of those 'new-fangled' things... just always too big and too in the way. I always used a parallel with triangles and templates. As a technical illustrator I 'cut-my-teeth' on isometric exploded-view parts illustrations, which I proved to be very good at. I started my career in the sub-contract business doing such work for IBM, Ingersoll-Rand, U.S. Textile, GAF, and several others. I ended up working for Ingersoll-Rand and later Dresser-Rand. But while they were my prime employer, I also did a lot of freelance work for others.

I started doing most of my work on the PC in the late 80's.

Retired now for ten years, some of those old tools come in handy in the shop.

CWS

[Pappy]

Irr,


I'm sure you remember the so called 'drafting' machines, but I never could get used to one of those 'new-fangled' things... just always too big and too in the way. CWS

still got one of them. Old K&E Paragon mounted to a modified antique White Oak Hamilton table