T4 / T8 Ballasts

[leehljp]

The office where I work has about 40 light fixtures with 4 T8 Flourescent bulbs each. The major part of this building is used primarly for clothes and food distribution to needy. But the lights in question is in the office/meeting rooms.

About 8 lights have bad ballasts. All 40 of these 4 bulb light sets - each have dual ballasts, with each ballast driving 2 bulbs. In 4 fixtures, only one of the two ballast not working; in the other 4, both ballasts are bad.

Question: There are some single ballasts available from HD or Lowes that drive 4 40w bulb sets. Would these single 4 bulb ballasts be a suitable replacement for the dual 2 bulb ballasts in the light set?

Will there be a wiring difference to expect, or some catch that I may not be aware of until I get into it. I have replaced ballasts easily enough before, but that was in simple straight forward direct replacement situations.


If this is workable, I will also replace the sets where one of the ballasts is still working. Because this is primarily a "volunteer" operated ministry center, keepings costs down is a necessity, so I want to go with fewer ballasts and would rather do that than replace each complete light unit. I don't have the skilled manpower or the budget to replace each light unit in the hanging ceiling situation here.

Any information or guidance would be appreciated.

ONE OTHER THING: As I read some reviews, some ballasts work well and some are really lamblasted on the HD site. This tells me that there apparently different quality ballasts. I certainly need to strike a ballance between quality and affordability, but do not want to be replacing a new ballast in 6 months! Your recommendation for specific company/ballasts would also be helpful.

[mineengineer]

What wattage bulbs you using?

Replacing the ballasts is easy enough. What voltage is driving them 120 or 277 (single or three phase)? Are the two balast fixtures wired to different switches so that you can select a light level like 0 2 or 4 tubes on at a time. I have about 300 or so of T8 3 and 4 bulb troffers in my basement that I got a few months ago that were surplused when all the suspended ceilings in our building were redone. The ballasts in these lights I have were only used for about a year so, if you are interested in using slightly used ballasts I could probably make you a real sweet deal on some. Are you using 32 or 25 watt bulbs?

[leehljp]

Replacing the ballasts is easy enough. What voltage is driving them 120 or 277 (single or three phase)?

Are the two balast fixtures wired to different switches so that you can select a light level like 0 2 or 4 tubes on at a time. I have about 300 or so of T8 3 and 4 bulb troffers in my basement that I got a few months ago that were surplused when all the suspended ceilings in our building were redone. The ballasts in these lights I have were only used for about a year so, if you are interested in using slightly used ballasts I could probably make you a real sweet deal on some. Are you using 32 or 25 watt bulbs?[/QUOTE]

120V
Single Circuit, 8 switches total for 40 4bulb panels.
32 watt bulbs

I would be interested in knowing the prices to run before my bosses. They already have priced HD's and just waiting for me to find the time.

[cabinetman]

I've replaced the two ballast with a single, and I'm pretty sure it's this one. Wiring diagram is on the label.

.

[Tom Slick]

You can certainly replace 2 two bulb ballasts with 1 four bulb ballast. As mentioned, quite often they have 2 ballasts so you can have two lighting intensities.

[Hellrazor]

Get your ballasts at a supply house. Get Phillips, Advance or other big name ballast. You might pay more but the box store ballasts are junk. I will not buy large fuses for disconnects from the box stores, Ace, etc because they do not hold up either. Bulbs are the same way too. Check box store vs supply house for the expected hour ratings.

If you want ballast info for the ones we use, I can look them up on Monday.

edit - t8 should be 24 or 32W not 40W.

[frumper64]

Hank. we have been going through this process at our church since we have tons of T12 fixtures which we are changing out to T8s both for energy savings and future availability of bulbs. Most of the 4 lamp fixtures had 2 ballasts. In all cases, they were easily replaced with a single ballast to run all four lamps. Our facility guy gets them online somewhere by the case for cost savings. I can ask him for the web site if you like. I've changed many of them out over the last few months and they go pretty easily. I'm pretty sure the ballasts he has been getting have been multi voltage, by the way, since part of the building has 120 volt fixtures and the rest has 277 volt fixtures.

[leehljp]

Hank. we have been going through this process at our church since we have tons of T12 fixtures which we are changing out to T8s both for energy savings and future availability of bulbs. Most of the 4 lamp fixtures had 2 ballasts. In all cases, they were easily replaced with a single ballast to run all four lamps. Our facility guy gets them online somewhere by the case for cost savings. I can ask him for the web site if you like. . .

If you don't mind, find out the web site for me. One reason I asked for suggestions in the OP is that I as I read the reviews on some box store ballasts, most are not dependable enough. The one that Cab posted a link for - does have good reviews, but I am concerned about commercial use ballasts and prefer industrial quality.

Helrazor gave me an idea to look at a supply house. If I give my recommendation and do the install, I don't want someone calling me in a year and a half about replacing them again. Still, I have just been asked to replace them in the next couple of weeks, if possible.

[woodturner]

Get your ballasts at a supply house. Get Phillips, Advance or other big name ballast. You might pay more but the box store ballasts are junk.

I'm curious why you feel the box store ballasts are "junk", when they are the same as the brand name parts, in many cases. Have you had a bad experience? Or just a few failures - which are also common with the brand name parts?

FWIW, most of the box store parts are relabeled parts from the same manufacturers. There quality is the same in these cases.

MTBF is the spec that will tell you how long the ballast will last, and is a good measure of quality. If the MTBF of two ballasts is in the same range, the parts will last as long, on average, whether you buy the Phillips branded part at 3x the price or the identical part with a generic name for 1/3 the price. The brand name parts cost more because you are paying for the brand name, but are exactly the same part as the "generic" part.

There is no benefit for paying extra for a few letters on a the packaging - I'd suggest buying the less expensive generic with the same MTBF by the same manufacturer.

[woodturner]

One reason I asked for suggestions in the OP is that I as I read the reviews on some box store ballasts, most are not dependable enough.

Keep in mind that those reviews can be written by anyone, are usually written by inexperienced people based on anecdotal experience (e.g. they bought and improperly installed one ballast), and people with complaints are more likely to post a review than those that are happy. In other words, they are largely unreliable.

For example, if you look on Newegg for power supply reviews, many people complain about power supplies that are DOA. I would think people buying power supplies for a computer would have some technical knowledge, but it appears that at least half the reviewers did not know that the power switch connection has to be shorted out to bench test a PC power supply. It's likely that nearly all those DOAs are working power supplies.

Different products are built for different longevities, and MTBF - Mean Time Between Failures - is the specification that quantifies that. To determine MTBF, a statistically significant sample of the units is operated until enough units fail to calculate an average MTBF. In practice the distribution tends to be Gaussian with a high peak, so MTBF tends to be a pretty reliable measure of lifetime.

The only problem is where to get the MTBF number. You can do a Bing search for it or go to the manufacturer's web site. It might be necessary to call the manufacturer. Warranty is also suggest MTBF - the warranty is usually in the range of the MTBF, for the conditions they used for their calculation. One typical assumption is that the light will be turned on four hours per day, but different manufacturers use difference usage assumptions.

The box stores sell residential ballasts, for the most part - they are light duty ballasts, intended for residential use. For a business, church, etc., I would use industrial rated ballasts, since the lights are likely to be on for longer periods of time and the ballasts are rated for that. Cost will be higher, but you may never have to replace them.

[LCHIEN]

i agree with woodturner, reviews at consumer-oriented stores are not something to hang your hat on.
In other words reviews at a box store saying that items are not reliable, may not in themselves be reliable.

OTOH, its hard to determine who the original manufacturer is, that is someting they may not want to be known since it can undercut their name brand sales.
Worse scenario, in todays' overseas manufacturing the name brand stuff may be being labled with their brand but made in the same low cost, low quality factory as the generic stuff.

[Charlie R]

Check with local electrical supply house and power company for available subsidy for converting to low energy lighting. A friend changed his store's ballasts and bulbs and got considerable savings from a go green promotion.

[cwsmith]

We have three 4-bulb florescents in our kitchen. They are about seven years old now and last year I had to replace two of the fixture balasts. (They are four bulb, with one electronic balast per fixture.)

Well, when the first one went I bought the replacement balast from a local electric supply warehouse. I took the old ballast and they gave me a suitable replacement. A month or so later, the second fixture went and instead of taking the five mile trip to the electric supplier, I opted to just stop in at the local Home Depot. They didn't have any and the help was of no help. So I stopped over at Lowes' and they gave me a matching ballast.

Unfortunately, that ballast started buzzing about two weeks later and I called Phillips... the tech there was great and explained that I was given a cheaper (economical) ballast and that while that might work in some conditions, he recommended their "commercial" version. I took the ballast back to Lowes' and they replaced the ballast with the "commercial" version they had in stock. The Phillips web site has great information if you want to check it out. IIRC, the proper ballast was the "Advance" series.

Point is to make sure you get the proper ballast and not just the lowerest cost replacement. My fixtures are relatively new, so they were really quite easy to replace, just matching the color of the wires and making sure you don't pinch a wire with you reassemble the covering.

I hope this helps,

CWS

[leehljp]

All of you guys are great with information. I appreciate this very much. CW, thanks for your experience; that tells me what I need to ask. And, finding a good, knowledgeable electronics guy is important.

Last year, my daughter had an outside outlet that had an undergound feed to a small shed. The outlet worked but the first plug inside the shed did not work. When I explained that to one fellow and HD Springfield MO, he took me through the types of plugs and told me what the problem was. Sure enough, he was right. Wisdom is knowing when you find someone who "knows for sure", and willing to help!

I will check with a local electrical shop first and then if needed with a Lowes or HD in another town.