a little power apparently goes a long way

[RAFlorida]

Dal300 is giving you the insight

of voltage drop. With all your equipment running at the same time, lights counted into the equation as well, your 10/3 wire is heating up, along with the breaker and buss bars. No way would I use a 30 amp panel...

[tommyt654]

I'd bet it won't be long before an electrician sets him straight or he burns a tool up or worse his home.With all that kindling it won't take much. I would have a qualified electrician come out and recheck that all is safe and correct before fudging around with what everyone else figures to be an unsafe practice, but hey thats just me, not a pro like Joseph, er toolguy1000

[toolguy1000]

12/4 oak jammed into the saw blade could be a good "stress" test ;-)

i doubt any TS under 3hp could breeze through that. at least you didn't suggest ipe as a test material.

The motors will draw about 3 times the rated max current on startup - so start them one at a time, not simultaneously.

the ivac swithches have built in delays, so although the saw and slave tools are activated simultaneously, there are 1-2 second delays built into the units. and in checking with the guys @ mbright (makers of the ivac) on my situation, they offerred to exchange one of my ivacs for a new ivac switch with a longer activation delay. i'l be waiting to see if i need to take them up on their offer (and regarding automatic tool activation, they, and their products, are outstanding).

10A is a good rule of thumb for running current draw on a 1 HP motor, but the nameplate rating is likely to be more accurate.

Your dust collector and vacuum should draw little current when unloaded, so unless you are completely filling the hose with dust and bogging down the fan, you should be fine with those.

The saw is the motor that will vary the load - it can jump nearly to startup current as it hits a tough patch of wood. However, breakers trip due to sustained moderate overcurrent or massive overcurrent. So, if you stall the saw motor for 5 minutes, the breaker will likely eventually trip after a minute or two. If you hit a knot, however, and draw 40A for a few seconds, the breaker won't trip.

"stall the motor for 5 minutes"? i'm not sure that i've ever seen a situation where stalling a blade for more than a few seconds doesn't result in either the saw motor's internal breaker tripping or the service breaker trippping. 5 minutes of allowing a blade to remain in a stalled position seems like an awfully long time.

So are you running 110 VAC or 220 VAC? I understood 110 VAC @ 30A, but if it's 220 VAC @ 30 A, you should be fine.

the subpanel is energized off a 30A 220VAC breaker in the main panel. and as i noted in the OP, i was pleasantly surprised to learn that it is adequate for my purposes.

what i'm still casually exploring is why the lights seem to dim less now than before. i had the 110v shop vac, the 110v ap400 and all my power tools are 110v, all on separate circuits. when i activated the RAS, which needs a DC and shop vac for dust control, the lights would dim for a second or two. now, after rearranging the breakers within the 30A subpanel to accomodate a 20A 220v circuit for the larger delta DC, as the video shows, activating MORE tools (the 2 DCs , the saw and the shop vac) resulted in almost no light dimming. i'll be seeing a friend who's an electrician over the weekend and see what he has to say about this. it may have something to do with rearranging which leg each circuit is on now vs. where they were before the modification.

[toolguy1000]

of voltage drop. With all your equipment running at the same time, lights counted into the equation as well, your 10/3 wire is heating up, along with the breaker and buss bars. No way would I use a 30 amp panel...

fortunately, it hasn't presented a problem. i've never had the 30A 220v feeder breaker in the main panel trip. and even in the rearranged 30A 220v sub panel, the DC, shop vac and activated power tool (only one saw dust generating tool is activated at a time) are all on separate circuits.

[pelligrini]

Any suggestions as to what type of dimensional material would make for an interesting test?

How about some 8/4 Cocobolo?
http://www.woodworkerssource.com/uni...que_items.html

[pelligrini]

it may have something to do with rearranging which leg each circuit is on now vs. where they were before the modification.

I'm guessing that the load is now more balanced.

I only have a 30A@220 breaker in the main panel feeding the subpanel in my shop/shed. All my tools are 110. I've never had a problem with the 60A@110 that's available, even with my large 110 window AC unit pulling 14.9 amps on high, also with four 48" twin tube light fixtures, battery chargers, and a stereo, a Jet 650 DC, and running a tool, be it a DW735 Planer, the 21829 clone, my 6" jointer, or DW618 router. I ran 6/3 from the main to the subpanel. It was drsigned for more than 30A@220, but I haven't needed to up the main breaker yet.

[woodturner]

what i'm still casually exploring is why the lights seem to dim less now than before.

Lights dimming is a symptom of voltage drop. Voltage drop in a wire increases when more current is drawn, such as when starting a motor. Larger wire has less voltage drop - which is why a "rule of thumb" is to use one wire size larger than required by NEC.

Regarding breakers, you can find the trip curves online for your breakers if you are interested. The key point is that a stalled saw will usually take a few minutes to trip a breaker - it won't trip instantly. Stick a fork in a wall socket and it will trip within millisends (please don't try this at home ), but lower levels of overcurrent require much longer to trip the breaker. That's why the 20A breaker in a typical table saw circuit doesn't trip when the motor draws 60A on startup - the duration of the overcurrent is too short to trip the breaker.

[LCHIEN]

a 30A 220V service can provide the equivalent power of 4 110V 15 A circuits. So a 1.5HP table saw, a 1.5HP DC and another 1.5HP DC and a ~1 HP vac will easily run.

Just keep in mind that the DCs and ship vac tend to run at full power and current when turned on and all ports open (not blocked). Whereas Power tools like saws tend to run at idling current when spinning but not cutting anything, Idling current may be 5 or 6 amps for a 1.5 HP table saw. I always find it impossible to look at meters and do maximum cutting loads to see what is drawn... too dangerous to be looking elsewhere. So I'd recommend you don't try it either.

[pelligrini]

The key point is that a stalled saw will usually take a few minutes to trip a breaker - it won't trip instantly. Stick a fork in a wall socket and it will trip within millisends (please don't try this at home )

If I stalled my saw, I wouldn't wait for the breaker to trip. I'd probably hit the stop switch in a few miliseconds.
Unless if it were a body part jaming the saw. Then I'd probably have bigger things to worry about than a tripped breaker...

I would think that the magic smoke would be let loose from the motor before the breaker for the saw tripped.

[Cochese]

If I stalled my saw, I wouldn't wait for the breaker to trip. I'd probably hit the stop switch in a few miliseconds.
Unless if it were a body part jaming the saw. Then I'd probably have bigger things to worry about than a tripped breaker...

I would think that the magic smoke would be let loose from the motor before the breaker for the saw tripped.

If that magic smoke comes out, be sure to replace it.

This Lucas Wiring smoke would seem to be a direct replacement.

[toolguy1000]

How about some 8/4 Cocobolo?
http://www.woodworkerssource.com/uni...que_items.html

sounds like a good test. when can you get my complimentary workpiece to me?

[toolguy1000]

Lights dimming is a symptom of voltage drop. Voltage drop in a wire increases when more current is drawn, such as when starting a motor. Larger wire has less voltage drop - which is why a "rule of thumb" is to use one wire size larger than required by NEC.

in my municipality, they won't allow that. or at least they wouldn't allow it when i had the garage service done..

Regarding breakers, you can find the trip curves online for your breakers if you are interested. The key point is that a stalled saw will usually take a few minutes to trip a breaker - it won't trip instantly. Stick a fork in a wall socket and it will trip within millisends (please don't try this at home ), but lower levels of overcurrent require much longer to trip the breaker. That's why the 20A breaker in a typical table saw circuit doesn't trip when the motor draws 60A on startup - the duration of the overcurrent is too short to trip the breaker.

but it still wouldn't take 5 minutes to trip the breaker or have the saw motor emit it's, what was that, "magic smoke". one would have to be fairly inattentive to permit that to happen.

some great comments here. interesting that others have shop service similar to mine and work without incident also.

[toolguy1000]

If that magic smoke comes out, be sure to replace it.

This Lucas Wiring smoke would seem to be a direct replacement.

now that looks to be one really useful item for the inattantive woodworker.

[Cochese]

some great comments here. interesting that others have shop service similar to mine and work without incident also.

They wouldn't allow you to build above code? That doesn't make sense.

[pelligrini]

some great comments here. interesting that others have shop service similar to mine and work without incident also.

I've never noticed the lights dimming with my subpanel. I did make sure to balance the loads on both legs. The AC and DC are on one and the tools and lights are on the other. In the couple spots I have two duplex outlets, they are on seterate legs.

I used to have a terrible time with power when I was running the shed off of two extension cords. One came from the porch circuit and eventually another from a nearby bedroom window. Never could really run that AC unit due to the voltage drop from the long cords.

sounds like a good test. when can you get my complimentary workpiece to me?

At $58 a BF I might be able to send you an inch of it.