Hoping for opinion on shop--next step

[sailor55330]

Hi,

Here's my situation--I'll try to describe it as easily as possible. I have a small basement workshop (11x13 with a 3x4 L-shaped corner, so total square footages is around 144). Currently, the shop is stud walls, with no drywall up, but hopefully this winter. I did think ahead and framed in a 36" door. I currently have the following.

Bt3100
48" Wood Lathe
Ryobi 12" drill press on rolling stand I built
Delta (real Delta from when they weren't aluminum) 10" compound miter saw.
Collection of the basic hand power tools (circular saws, jigsaws, router, dremels, drills, etc).
Shopvac for dust collection with Thein separator/30g garbage can that is stacked.
Hopefuls someday include Jointer, planer, real dust collection, band saw, and maybe a scroll saw

I also have a 1949 Atlas 8" all cast iron table saw and stand that still runs extremely smooth, but I don't use it much as it is hard to find blades.

What I don't have is a good workbench yet. My current workbench is a 24x48 folding cafeteria table that is used mainly as a junk catcher. Believe it or not, the worksho is really not that crowded. You can easily walk around and get to every tool without contorting. Depending on how I align the table saw (which is in the middle), I can easily rip an 8ft board without clearance issues.

What I am trying to decide on is this. I know I need a good workbench, but I know I also need an outfeed table for my BT. I'm trying to decide if I should build a collapsable outfeedtable and then a separate bench or build a bench that is the same height as an outfeed table would be and make it mobile. My concerns are that a collapsable outfeed table will not be sturdy enough for the rigors of normal bench duty. I do have the wide table kit (unopened) but I think that would be too overpowering given my space.

Right now, I am leaning towards a smallish bench, probably 24x48, and make it a permanent fixture with some storage underneath. Does this sound reasonable or will I regret such a small bench? I was thinking of making a small frame out of 1x4 or 1x3 and fitting the top with masonite that fits into a rabbeted edge. Couple that with a folding leg and it should be strong enough to work as an outfeed table alone. The other option was to get a 24" piece of white melemine shelving and use that for a folding outfeed table.

For the bench, I was thinking of using 3/4" MDF for the base and sides, mounted on a 2x4 frame with a 3/4" MDF top covered in sacrificial hardboard and trimmed in yellow pine (only because my neighber gave me a decent supply of straight 1x4 yellow pine premium lumber he had purchased and didnt' need.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Thank you in advance.

[gsmittle]

There are several ideas and designs at Workbench Design.

g.

[dbhost]

A good workbench is a must, but one thing that I put off for too long, and I am kicking myself for is not enough power. As soon as you can afford to, get a sub panel run with the power you need to run your shop...

[toolguy1000]

the smaller the space, the greater the need for mobility. i am crampt in a 240sq' shared 1 car garage shop, and all my tools and worbench are mobile. i did this for 2 reasons..1) flexibilty 2) i insist on being able to park a minivan in it once all the tools are stored away.

at 144 sq', i'd be reluctant to make anything non-mobile. the 24x48" bench sounds good, and it could be made with 12x48 removeable shelves that store on shelf bracket mounted to teh bench's legs. if more space if needed, the shelves can be hooked onto the shelf standards providing a 4'x4' work surface. make it the same height as your bt3, and you've covered the outfeed table issue also. workbench magazine, or what was workbench magazine, had an article and illustrations for the simple bench i built that incorporated these stowable "extensions" for the top and it has performed admirably.

also, you could use 3/4" plywood cut to fit the top of the bt3 adn that could function as a workbench. the family handyman had an article on that a while back. very useful.

as far as bulding a bench out of 3/4" MDF and 2x4s, that'd be one really heavy bench. what would be the reason for the MDF?

[pelligrini]

There are many options, a lot of it would have to do with how you are going to use the bench. 2x4 is kind of small. I used something similar in my shop for a bit. My shed is 10x12, so I'm really familiar with tight spaces. I used a wide table kit and 2 leg kits for a light duty bench for short while. It just didn't have the stability needed for a bench, especially for hand tool work. I started out with a MDF top and later replaced it with a 2x4 laminated slab of maple. Even then it was still too light. If I was planing a board on one end towards that end the thing would still lift, but nowhere near as much with just the MDF top. 4' was a little short too. I liked not giving up the space, but there just wasn't enough surface area. I was constantly running out of room to do anything, even with trying to keep any unnecessary tools and items put up in their proper places.

I'd really recommend building a stout Roubu styled bench, and use it as an outfeed table behind your saw. I wouldn't put casters on it, unless there is some sort of retracting mechanism. You'd be surprised how easy it is to slide a heavier (200+ lbs) bench around on a relatively smooth floor. I can move mine across my OSB floor fairly easily, but it still has enough heft to remain in place when planing and such. I did a lot of research on benches before I finally designed and built mine. The traditional French style with the legs flush with the face of the benchtop makes for many different clamping options. I put a Wilton 9” vice on the face to the left of the leg and a leg vise on the right leg. There’s another Wilton 9” on the right end. I plan to upgrade it to a Veritas twin screw end vice someday.

I’m really glad I built mine longer than I first intended. The extra real estate on top is nice to have. I ended up going with a 76” long bench. I started designing it for a 5’ top but mounting the vices and leaving clearance for my flip top planer cabinet to roll under was getting problematic. I looked into doing a layered MDF top, or plywood & MDF etc. I always ended beck up with a wood top; mainly for use with traditional hold downs. I could get a longer cantilever on the ends without fear of any sagging. There’s some info on it in this thread: http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=45506

The latest issue of Popular Woodworking has a nice smaller Roubu inspired bench by Chris Schwarz. http://www.popularwoodworking.com/aug10 He plans to put it in some of the living space upstairs in his house. His book, Workbenches is a pretty good source too.

I think you could be pretty happy with a little bit bigger of a bench and also use it as your outfeed table, as long as it works with your shop layout. You’ll loose some shop floor space, but gain a stable work surface. I’ve gone from a B&D workmate, to a plywood top on sawhorses & other solutions, and finally to a decent bench. Having a nice, heavy duty bench is certainly a pleasure.

Also, if you don’t need to insulate your open studspaces you might think about taking advantage of them. I did some pegboard door cabinets on mine and it really helped with some of my storage/access issues. With our little shops, every inch counts.

http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=39255

http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=50094

[Cochese]

I think you're going to find a single 2x4 bench a bit lacking. I have two in a similar space and it's always got something on it.

Go at least 2x6.

[natausch]

Deal with similar issues since in a 2x garage which also houses our cars. You can survive with a 2x4 or 2x5 bench, but you have to gurantee that you have more cubboard, shelf and drawer space than you'll ever need. You will also need to be diligent about having a space for everything and spending a few minutes tidying up before beginning any project.

[sailor55330]

All good feedback and thank you.

A couple more questions and more info.

1. The room is already wired with 2 separate 20 amp circuits and the lights on a separate 15amp circuit. My thought on that was that I wouldn't be running more than 1 tool and a dust collector at the same time. Put them on separate circuits and they won't fight for power. Make sense?

2. The walls ultimately have to be finished---wife said so for noise abatement. Easier to no fight it.

I could possibly fit a bench that is 5 ft, possibly 6ft long, but the 24" is pushing it on the width. If I go any wider, then I worry it will become to large to work around. I was thinking MDF on the top because it would be heavy for stability, it's flat and can be covered with a durable surface such as masonite. I'd love to do a laminated top, but I really don't have any way to make the edges smooth enough for laminating or the skills at this point to do it right.

I know I'm going to be short on storage no matter what I do, so I'll have to figure that out as I go along. I've heard of the infamous workbench book but I've not been able to locate a copy at the library or any local book store, so I guess I'll keep looking. In the mean time, I will continue to try to find a Roubo style bench with plans that are simple enough for me to try and execute.

Thanks again

[pelligrini]

The 24" depth would probably be fine. The Japanese used benches much narrower. The most important thing is stability and flatness. A single piece of 3/4 MDF or plywood will warp and bow over time. It sure did on the piece I had on my leg kits. You'll need to laminate some pieces or create a stable frame with multiple supports on the base. The MDF and hardboard combo has been used a lot.

Another option for the top is to buy a laminated wood one. I'm not sure what your budget is but Woodcraft and Rockler carry some laminated tops. http://www.woodcraft.com/Catalog/Pro...f-a56f54530d50 I've seen many ads is our local craigslist from places selling laminated wood counter tops. Something like that could be a good source.

[sailor55330]

Budget? All I will say is my main source of lumber right now is the scrap bin at HD.....does that provide an insight?

[pelligrini]

Ouch, I know that feeling.

Jobsite dumpsters can be a good source for framing lumber. I scrounged a bunch of decent lumber when I was doing some work on some condos our firm designed and built. I snagged a few hundred board feet of maple flooring that had to be replaced too. I did have to pull a few hundred staples though. There are other sources for getting a hold of reclaimed wood.

[Cochese]

sailor, if you want a decent little bench to get you going until you can do something beefier, check out the $20 table here:

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/workshop/bench/below20.html

I built two of these and never even got around to putting the fourth rail on the bottom and the shelf. Solid, and movable even without casters. You could easily modify the design to the height of an outfeed table. And as advertised, $20 or less. I used a couple pieces of 3/4" MDF as a temporary router table for a couple of months and it worked great.



Now, I'm wanting to build Tom Caspar's bench to replace one of them.

http://americanwoodworker.com/blogs/projects/archive/2009/03/04/tom-s-torsion-box-workbench.aspx

Might replace the ply top with MDO, if I can ever find a place that carries it.

[tung tied]

Just a note about finishing the walls. Instead of sheetrock, consider ply or ROS board, then paint. Less dings from swinging boards, clamps, debris, etc.
I used it, looks fine, glad I did.

[sailor55330]

Thanks again to all.

Good suggestion on the wall finish. I was actually thinking of OSB, but it might be a little overkill.

When I was in TX, I found an old-time lumberyard that actually had 4x8 sheets of masonite/pegboard. The bottom half was solid, the top half was pegboard. It let you have the best of both worlds, but I haven't seen it in years. When I've asked around, all I've gotten was strange looks.

I'll keep you posted and let you know how it turns out.

PS. I like that bench in the link. Seems like a good bench that isn't too difficult to build.

[rcp612]

Just a note about finishing the walls. Instead of sheetrock, consider ply or ROS board, then paint. Less dings from swinging boards, clamps, debris, etc.
I used it, looks fine, glad I did.

I may be a little slow but, what is ROS board?