More ponderings on DC plumbing setup.

[dbhost]

Okay here goes nothing...

I just want to double check my shopping list as it were to complete the plumbing connections for the DC.

I come into and out of the DC with 4" DC fittings, the elbow a 4" DC hose elbow http://www.ptreeusa.com/dust_y_T_elbow.htm#418, and the center pipe a 4" hose splice http://www.ptreeusa.com/dustfittings_connector.htm#419

I come out of there to a Rockler 4" DC hose to PVC S&D fitting http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...3&filter=sewer

I come accross with the S&D to wyes, and 45 degree elbows to make my LONG 90 degree bends to get to the tools and blast gates. I know I will need some sort of clamps or brackets to hold the pipe, but what?

I THINK this is the material I need to come out of the S&D pipe, and to the machines.

Mind you, I am not saying I am planning on using supplier A.B.C. or D, I am just giving these links as a reference to the TYPE of fittings etc... I am thinking about...

Lee Valley 4" self cleaning aluminum blast gates. Item #03J61.24

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=51506&cat=1,42401&ap=1

The little bit of gap between the blast gate and the pipe will be taken up with "Duck" brand duct tape, I have a LOT of it... The blast gates will be held in with self threading screws.

To provide the fit from the blast gate to the male hose end, which I believe are both 4" OD, I would need a 4" taper to taper quick connect splice. http://www.ptreeusa.com/dustfittings_connector.htm#424

To build the hoses, I will need, welll, hose. Item #381 SuperFlex 4" x 50' hose should be fine. I have the 2.5" stuff already and it works great. http://www.ptreeusa.com/dusthose.htm

To connect the hoses to the blast gates and machines, on each end of the hose I would want 4" Dust Collection Hose Threaded quick connect, just like I have on my 2.5" system hoses, but bigger.

http://www.ptreeusa.com/dustfittings_connector.htm#421

To connect the table saw belly pan, and blade shroud I will need a 4"x4"x2.5" wye fitting as well as another of those taper by taper splices to allow me to quick disconnect the wye from the main hose. Same goes for the band saw. http://www.ptreeusa.com/dust_y_T_elbow.htm#416

Speaking of the band saw, yes, the lower wheel guard area dust collection is pitiful at best. A 4" universal dust port / flange is in order. http://www.ptreeusa.com/dust_ports.htm#389

A few misc machines will require a 2.5" port, but not the static lift of the vac, for those I will want the item #441 4" to 2 1/2" reducer. http://www.ptreeusa.com/dustfittings_reducers.htm

[jackellis]

I don't know about your shopping list of fittings, though I do wonder about using 4" pipe for your main unless you DC sucks like I hope mine will. Self-cleaning blast gates are a great idea. The fellow I bought mine from also had the plastic ones and he said they were a pain to keep clean. You could also build blastgates, and I might try one or two but the metal ones look like just the ticket.

The workshop I bought my DC from used metal strapping of the type we use in California to secure water heaters for hanging the DC ducts. I'm thinking about something that looks a little nicer and perhaps even making hangars from plywood...someday. I suppose you could use high strength fishing line for all the difference it would make.

I know this. I have to have at least one air cleaner in the shop and the shop has to be vacuumed periodically. I probably inhaled a pound of fine dust last night helping dismantle someone else's shop and I'm sure all that crap in my lungs is going to reduce my life expectancy. All of it is dust that did not find its way into one of the two dust collectors.

[LarryG]

A few quick comments; I may have more to offer, later.

For your connection to the DC impeller housing inlet, look at how I did mine, using a 4" S&D wye. I wrapped foam tape around the bell of the fitting, to take up the slack, and secured it with round-head machine screws (heads on the inside). Works great and I get the full 4" ID going into the machine ... actually a bit more than 4".

On the one LV blast gate I have installed as a test, I didn't use any duct tape; it's a good fit into the end of the green S&D pipe. The flanges are very short, however, so I did secure it with sheet metal screws. (I took a picture of this the other day, but don't seem to have it with me. I'll make a note to find it and post it tomorrow.)

To connect 4" hose to a blast gate, you can use use a straight 4" S&D coupler with a short green-pipe nipple. Cost for the coupler is about a buck-twenty, IIRC, and the hose is a tight cram-fit inside the fitting. (This applies to any S&D fitting, actually. You can see an example of this in Photo 2 of the above thread.)

The threaded quick-disconnect fittings are the shittzel; you definitely want those wherever they'll work. These are also a good fit inside the bell of an S&D fitting ... see my Stovepipe Mod thread for an example. If you look closely you can just make out the black plastic of one of these fittings.

I supported my pipe runs with some long cable ties. But I had pipe columns and exposed framing that these were able to wrap around. The metal U-straps intended for DC hose will work for 4" S&D pipe; again, see the first linked thread, Photos 6 and 8.

Generally speaking, you want to use S&D fittings (because of their larger ID) rather than DC fittings wherever you can. Other than the plastic blast gates (which are on their way to the dumpster), the quick-disconnects on the ends of the hoses (an elegant solution where hoses must be used), and a couple 4">2.5" reducers (no other good way to do this), I have ZERO black DC fittings in my entire system.

[poolhound]

DB,

IIRC you just got one of the HF 2HP DCs. I dont have one (I have the 50-760) but from what I understand the CFM claims are rather optimistic. The filter mods you are planning will help but do be careful about planning any very long fixed pipe runs.

A beefy 220v 3hp DC like Jack just got shouldnt be a problem but you may significnatly increase your SP and reduce your CFM if you try to go too far. Even with my 50-760 which is highly rated the recommendation is NOT to pipe it in but use a max of 10-15 feet of hose moved from machine to machine.

of course YMMV

[dbhost]

Well, my pipe runs are planned to be as straight as physically possible. I know the CFM claims of ALL 4" ducted DCs are more than optimistic... But that is a different thread...

I have seen 4" pipe in a shop bigger than what I have, and bigger than what I am going to working with the old model 14 amp HF DC. I have the newer 20 amp model which is supposed to be a pretty big improvement in performance... The runs I am planning are straighter, and the shop for now, and the future shop are both much smaller. (The shop I refer to if I recall right was 16x20.)

The stovepipe mod is on the planning sheet. I might do it with S&D and some 45s though.

[dbhost]

DB,

IIRC you just got one of the HF 2HP DCs. I dont have one (I have the 50-760) but from what I understand the CFM claims are rather optimistic. The filter mods you are planning will help but do be careful about planning any very long fixed pipe runs.

A beefy 220v 3hp DC like Jack just got shouldnt be a problem but you may significnatly increase your SP and reduce your CFM if you try to go too far. Even with my 50-760 which is highly rated the recommendation is NOT to pipe it in but use a max of 10-15 feet of hose moved from machine to machine.

of course YMMV

You know of course, that just dragging a single hose around makes for a LOT less plumbing hassle... And certainly reduced cost.

[master53yoda]

For what it is worth the dust collector is rated at 1300 CFM with 5" metal pipe and not more then 10' of 5" flex. IF your main line is 4" flex and is more then 10' long you have cut the CFM down to about 700 CFM. and made the DC a 1 HP DC this would happen whether you are using a 1 hp collector or a 5 hp collector the DC static varies very little between DCs the pipe sizing is what limits the cfm. If you are only using 1 tool at a time you may be happy but if your ever want to use more then 1 tool. leave the 4" y on the DC so that you can get the air that the DC is able to move.

My mainline is 6" sheetmetal and total length of 60' equivalent counting the fittings when I'm done. It will feed two 4" lines at full capacity at the same time any where in the piping system. I am using the 2 HP DC from HF. It will also blow a 15 amp breaker after about 20 minutes running time amping out at a little over 16 AMPS meaining I am delivering 2 HP worth of air or it wouldnt blow a 15 amp breaker. It runs on a dedicated 20 amp circuit.

Correct pipe sizing and duct seal is the most criticale items on a DC system.

[dbhost]

True, but isn't 5" pretty much only available in metal, and 6" too big for a 2HP DC?

Just covering the bases is all guys and gals. Want to make sure I have this right...

[jackellis]

I was planning to run 10' of 6" pipe in each direction right, left and across the shop so I'd catch all my stationary tools, which except for the TS are planned to be along the same wall. I wanted the DC to be mobile so I could move it out of the way when necessary, but I did not and do not plan on moving it from tool to tool.

Initially I'll be using the 4" I got cheap but if it doesn't work, I will upgrade...cough cough. Cheaper than a chest X-ray for sure.

[master53yoda]

True, but isn't 5" pretty much only available in metal, and 6" too big for a 2HP DC?

Just covering the bases is all guys and gals. Want to make sure I have this right...

I use metal ducting because its much cheaper, easier to install , and easier to seal. The 6 inch main lines need to be opened at the far end once a week or so to remove any large chips that have settled in the long horizontal runs, With the end open it pulls enough air to bring everything back to the dust collector in about 5 minutes run time. I'll take a couple pictures of my run to show that it cleans up ok. The larger the pipe (within reason) the better the system will operate.

Below is a program that will give you templates for cutting fittings into any kind of pipe.

http://www.harderwoods.com/pipetemplate.php?f=dn&units=in&paper=letter&theta=45&rmd=4&rbd=3&rbt=.02&offset=0&Submit=Submit

[dbhost]

So... If you come out into a 5" main trunk line, how do you split off into what size branches for each tool? For example I would love to go to a 5" x 5" x 5" wye, to a blast gate, and then to a 5" in, x 4" x 2.5" out wye to connect the table saw bottom end, likewise with the band saw. I would like to split to 2 @ 2.5" outs for the Ridgid sander to try to pick up with the onboard misses, as well as design and build a good dust hood for the CMS. All that is left then is 2.5" ports for the jointer and planer. Hand sanders would still be run into the vac.

Are the pieces available to do this? Do I have to take up sheet metal fabrication to get this done?

[jackellis]

I'll admit I'm being lazy about this but are there relatively inexpensive devices for measuring air flow velocity and static pressure and if so, where can they be purchased.

I suppose I could build a water manometer easily enough to measure static pressure at various points (should be negative). The rig I used in lab for an engineering course to measure air velocities was a heated filament and I'm not sure I could set that up very well more than 30 years after the fact.

[master53yoda]

http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=43926

There are pictures in this link of a 4" drop on a 6" run using the fitting program. the difference in cost is more then enough to by all the tools that you would need to do the sheet metal if you will ave more ten 4 or 5 drops total.. The wye you mentioned is about 5 bucks each, the take off as shown is only about .75 the hard part is done by the website I left on the previous reply in giving you the cutting template.

I use 3" RV sewer house and fittings on all my tools, instead of 4" or 2 1/4"vacuum clear lines, it makes a substantial difference on the delivered air flow from the device. the RV fittings connect directly to 3" metal pipe. I use the same program to generate the 3" take offs on the 4 inch drops. the only purchased fitting I Use is the 3 to 4 " reducer for the end of the 4" runs. None of the tools I have including planer realy need more than a 3" run

[LarryG]

Dave, here's a picture of the LV blast gate test installation, as promised. How everything fits together should be self-explanatory.



Note how the threaded quick-disconnect hose end fitting fits into the white styrene straight coupler. Also, I confirmed that the LV gate and the 4" S&D pipe are a good size match: the gate slides right in, nice and snug, with no need for any duct tape (nor is there room for any).

[Tom Miller]

So... If you come out into a 5" main trunk line, how do you split off into what size branches for each tool? For example I would love to go to a 5" x 5" x 5" wye, to a blast gate, and then to a 5" in, x 4" x 2.5" out wye to connect the table saw bottom end, likewise with the band saw.

I don't think you gain a lot by having a larger diameter main line unless you're pulling from more than one tool at time. In fact, you almost have to have more than one port open to keep up your velocity in the main. So, I think you can just run 4" diameter through your shop, and branch off of it. If your DC has a 5" inlet, it probably came with a 5" to 4" or, more likely a 5" to 2-4" adapter.

Haven't been following this thread too closely, so pardon me if I missed something.

Regards,
Tom