shop cabinet advice

[kbkreisler]

This is what I intend to build for my garage, I have picked some ideas i liked from a couple of resources, and tried to utilize the space I have but I have a couple questions.



The shelf, and lip above the uppers is from the shopnotes small shops solutions magazine and would house fluorescent lighting, there will also be a flip up bench extension I did not draw yet in the center of the bench between the drawers.

What are the pros, and cons of painted, sealed 3/4" mdf, or 3/4" b/c plywood (about 10$ per sheet more)?

Should I use the same 3/4" material for the backs of the frameless cabinets, or should I use 1/4" hardboard?
any hinge recommendations?

when building the boxes for the drawers should I use 3/4" as well?
I plan on using some economy 100# full extension economy slides, but I see some variations in length between vendors, for a 16" deep base would 15 3/4 be ideal?

thanks,
Kyle

[jonmulzer]

Plywood is going to be MUCH more durable and quite a bit lighter. The edges of MDF ding up really easily and I am sure you know that water causes havoc. I much prefer plywood for making shop cabinets. It holds screws and such so much better. A double layer of it can make a good benchtop though after several coats of paste wax.

No comment on the choice of material for back or hinges. I prefer faceframe cabinets myself. I just feel they are much sturdier and more durable, but that is my opinion and it is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Drawer boxes are plenty sturdy when made of good quality 1/2" plywood with good joinery. That being said, every drawer in my shop is 3/4" because I always have scrap left from the cabinet carcass. It also lets me put them together really quickly since I just pocket screw them together and glue and staple on the bottom which is cut a touch oversize and then cleaned up with a flush trim bit in a router.

Before you finalize your plans I really recommend you get the book "Practical Shop Cabinets" published by a forum member here. It is an invaluable resource IMHO.

http://www.tomclarkbooks.com/tomclar..._Cabinets.html

[jackellis]

I'll have to do the same thing shortly. My advice is also what you paid for it but...

Plywood over MDF for the reasons Jon noted and because I despise the dust.

1/4 ply will be fine for the backs unless you're planing on hanging the cabinets from the back. In that case, 3/4' for the back is probably best, especially if they will be heavily loaded. I will probably use French cleats to hang mine because that way I can remove and rearrange.

I'm making some shop drawers now (prototype for the new shop) and 1/2' material is going to be more than strong enough for the drawer boxes.

I'm hoping to use European hinges for my cabinets, which will be European style. Euro hinges appear to demand less precision since they are adjustable. For my cabinet cases, I'll use biscuit joinery. We have inexpensive particleboard (Borg) Euro-style cabinets in one garage that are screwed together and they've been fine, though none have really heavily loaded shelves. I like the look of Euro cabinets, I think they're quicker and simpler to build, and I think they will be plenty strong..

I'm experimenting with wood runners instead of drawer slides for the smaller drawers on my prototype, though I will probably use slides in the new shop. Runners are also cheaper and quicker to build.

[dbhost]

Count mine as another vote for ply over MDF any day of the week. In New Mexico you won't have the humidity problems I do here, but MDF projects in the garage swell up like a beached whale due to the humidity... Just from durability, MDF chips out really bad, dings easily, and is extremely. I wouldn't use hardboard for the backs, but rather 1/4" ply. Around here I have been seeing some 3/8" ply that might fit the bill better if you are concerned with 1/4" but unless you are hanging your cabs from the back instead of stringers, you don't need that thickness.

From a weight perspective, again I would go with 1/2" instead of 3/4" for the drawer boxes unless you plan on dropping an 8lb sledge hammer in the drawer every day...

As far as hinges go, pretty much anything goes. It's up to you. How much time, money, and work do you want to put into it? European hinges are plenty cool, but expensive and a PITA to install. I personally like using the Amerock Full Inset Partial Wrap hinges on a lot of my projects. They are easy to install, last nearly forever, and look great! I like having just the pin part of the hinge exposed. Some folks like a fully exposed hinge, some like a fully concealed. What do you like?


Source: http://www.amerock.com/img/compel/3x...0T-G9_main.jpg

[poolhound]

Just to add another perspective.

1. I agree that Ply is best to build the cabinets for most of the reasons already stated.

2. Hinges are a matter of personal preferance. I can see not special requirements from you sketches. I also prefer face frames as they have a cleaner look and add strength. Therefore I would use a simple no mortise face frame hinge. Lots of options at somewhere like rockler or your local Borg.

3. When it comes to the bench top I would consider MDF for the following reasons. It is more stable than ply especially if you were thinking of cheap BORG rubbish, I can virtually guarantee that a cheap B/C ply will warp as soon as it is cut. If you are going to screw it down immediatley this may not be an issue. If you are going to use the surface of the ply or MDF directly the MDF will have a smoother clearner surface and the ply may have filled voids. MDF with a good few coats of your favorite sealer makes a great surface. I agree with the OPs that an MDF edge may get dinged but whichever material you choose I would edge band in HW.

4. Another consideration is a replaceable top which makes the substrate choice moot (choose MDF). Unless you really dont care about the surface getting dinged a replaceable top surface is the way to go. 1/4" hardboard is on my main bench but another great option is to use some laminate flooring. fix your hardwood edgebanding proud of the substrate by the thickness of your chosen top and then just set it in. You can pickup cheap laminate in many places, the nice thing about it is if you badly ding one section you only need to replace one piece.

One other thought. Unless you are really keen on making them and having the design match perfectly, consider calling around a few kitchen/bath places and ask what they do with the old units they rip out. Most of the time they just throw them away. you could easily pickup somebodies old base and wall cabinets for free or even if you had to pay a small amount it would be way less than the materials and time to make you own.

[shoottx]

One other thought. Unless you are really keen on making them and having the design match perfectly, consider calling around a few kitchen/bath places and ask what they do with the old units they rip out. Most of the time they just throw them away. you could easily pickup somebodies old base and wall cabinets for free or even if you had to pay a small amount it would be way less than the materials and time to make you own.

The other option is to pick up cabinets being replaced by a cabinet shop. If a shop is building a lot of cabinets for remodel, they may be able to score you some slightly used cabinets. A quick coat of paint and of to real projects!

[JimD]

I used BCX and full overlay doors (flat panel) hinged with European hinges. I did not bother to edge the BCX but the door covers it up (when it's closed). MDF is not very strong or durable. Joints are just dados or rabbets, glue, and drywall screws. MDF looks better painted and it's cheaper but those are about it's only desirable qualities. I hung my cabinets from the back but I don't think I put a back on them, just hanging rails of 3/4 at the top and bottom. You could also use luan plywood for the back but you still need the 3/4 to hang with. A full 3/4 back seems silly to me (despite what Norm says). It makes the cabinet heavy, adds to the cost, is unnecessary for strength, and wastes space.

For counter top, I would use the BCX plus a 1/4 piece of tempered hardboard. The 1/4 you replace when it gets messed up.

BCX is not much to look at but nice and strong. A face frame to cover the edge is not a bad idea. That would also let you use cheaper hinges. You could also edge it with softwood shaved flush to the plywood. Shelves should definitely be plywood or solid wood, MDF's weakness will be particularly evident in a shelf.

I used side hung drawers of softwood shelving boards sliding on hardwood runners. It is not quite as smooth as a drawer slide but plenty adequate for a drawer in my shop. I routinely make drawers for cabinets and furniture of 1/2 baltic birch plywood. I cut half blind dovetails in all 4 corners with a HF jig. It is decent looking and a lot less work than getting solid wood the right width for all the drawers. I have made drawers of lesser 1/2 plywood that work fine but I would not get fancy with the joinery - glue and brads or staples. Trying to cut dovetails or any other complicated joint in most plywood is asking for a lot of grief.

Jim

[RayintheUK]

Agree with most of the above, but I can't think of a single good reason to have the base cabinets wall-hung, as they appear to be in your diagram. if they're going to be on the floor and it's a Sketchup problem, fair enough, but I would want my bench to reach the deck!

Ray

[Uncle Hook]

Wet conditions in a garage would be one reason to elevete cabinets off the floor.

[dbhost]

If the garage is exposed to wet conditions, you might want the cabinets elevated. HOWEVER, you would be better off building a base, and coating it with spar urethane... Transferring the load to the wall can't be pretty...

[cabinetman]

My suggestion would parallel what some have already said. I would use a 3/4" plywood for the boxes, install an upper hangrail, and use 1/4" plywood for the back. Tempered masonite (hardboard) in 1/4" could be used for backs as it's cheaper than the plywood, but heavier.

I would make frameless cabinets. They are easier to maintain, have free and open floors to the cabinet, unless the bottom rail is flush to the floor. Drawers would be wider, and easier to fit, and the interior spacing would be more accessible. I would use euro style hinges, and possibly clip ons as they are easy to install and remove, and offer a wide range of adjustment. I would allow for overlay doors.

I would use 1/2" plywood for drawers, and use 1/4" hardboard for bottoms as it's more rigid than plywood. Generic full extension slides can be purchased fairly inexpensively, and would perform better than a wood to wood runner assembly, and allow full access to the rear of the drawer.

For sizing, I would hold heights and widths to maximize 4x8 sheets. Cabinets would be no wider or taller than 32", and 24" or less, deep for base cabinets and 12" or less for upper cabinets. In holding to that width, span for 3/4" shelves would be less prone to deflection than ones longer. I would make all shelves adjustable, and flippable.

When using an 1/8" kerf blade, I would arrange crosscuts on a 4x8 sheet to increments that would produce sizes that utilize the 8' length. IOW, 11 7/8" will yield 8 length wise, 15 7/8" = 6, 23 7/8 = 4.

For the 48" width, 11 7/8" = 4, 15 7/8" = 3, 23 7/8 = 2. I'm not figuring splitting a sheet where an 1/8" cut will yield two pieces 23 15/16". There may be a need to trim 1/16" from a cut edge or a factory edge. These sizes could be an indicator to sizes taller than 32" and deeper than 12" or 24".

For cabinet joinery, simple rabbets on the ends to accept the bottom and top, with glue and clamps and fasteners is more than sufficient. The back edge would be rabbeted to accept the 1/4" back. Toekicks/bases would be loose bases and made of exterior grade plywood, like A/C, or CDX.

Drawer joinery would be simple rabbets on the sides to accept the front and back. The back would be cut short for the 1/4" bottom to slide in a groove in the sides and the front, that would be 1/4" - 3/8" from the drawer sides/front bottom edge. There would be a separate drawer front to be added to the drawer box.

In evaluating what materials or hardware to use, consider that using questionable materials or cheap hardware just to save a few bucks may affect the usability or ease of use and longevity of the fixtures.

If hand-me-down production kitchen cabinets are available, their widths are usually in 3" increments starting at 9" for some. Before considering their use, an inspection of their physical characteristics should be made as to the materials used and whether they would be appropriate for your needs.
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[jackellis]

Trying to cut dovetails or any other complicated joint in most plywood is asking for a lot of grief.

I'm having pretty good success using a Holbren drawer lock router bit on 7/16 Aarauco plywood that's sold at Lowes for my drawer boxes. No voids, doesn't warp too much, nice even plies, relatively inexpensive, and both side are very decent quality.

[BrianStark]

This is what I intend to build for my garage,

I'm very interested to see how your project turns out. I too am thinking about building the same set of storage cabinets & bench based on the Small Shop Solutions article. I am wondering if anyone else has already built this plan and can comment on it.

I am concerned about putting all the weight of the base cabinets on the wall. I can't really quantify that concern in terms of worrying about placing a load of "X" pounds on the wall, but it just seems like a better approach to have base cabinets supported in part by the floor (I guess this is why most upper cabinets are always shallower than the base cabinets -- less weight on the wall?). Of course, in areas where the garage floor can become wet, this may not make much sense.

I see you are in MN -- I grew up back there too and remember the slush & ice that comes in the garage during the winter months from the underside of the cars. My dad had his workbench and a number of cabinets on the floor, but far enough away from the slush & ice from the cars that it wasn't an issue.

Brian

[RayintheUK]

I agree with CMan regarding frameless construction, which will be robust enough and far easier to keep clean and swept out. Don't compromise on the hardware - quality there pays huge dividends long term. Support the base units on adjustable legs, as used in Europe and the UK. No problems with water ingress or uneven floors.

Ray.

[cabinetman]

I am concerned about putting all the weight of the base cabinets on the wall. I can't really quantify that concern in terms of worrying about placing a load of "X" pounds on the wall, but it just seems like a better approach to have base cabinets supported in part by the floor (I guess this is why most upper cabinets are always shallower than the base cabinets -- less weight on the wall?).

Brian

That might seem to make sense, but in actuality, it's an ergonomic reason. If the upper (wall) cabinets were as deep as the base cabinets, there would be a few drawbacks. You wouldn't be able to lean over the countertop without banging your face on the cabinets. There's also the ability to access what's in the upper cabinets. With deep cabinets items would get lost on the depth of the shelves. Reaching those areas would be difficult and the body position would be too upright to lean into the cabinet opening and reach to the shelves.

It's not the weight that would be problematic, as an empty 12" deep upper cabinet properly fabricated and installed can hold a lot of weight. Base cabinets fabricated with the same level of quality can be wall hung, and do offer a degree of ease of cleaning and freedom from any contamination from whatever is on the floor. But, IMO, floor support with a water resistant toe kick (base) like exterior plywood, or as Ray suggested (feet or legs, even if only provided in the front) would offer better support.
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