Construction Types Opinions

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  • Pappy
    The Full Monte
    • Dec 2002
    • 10453
    • San Marcos, TX, USA.
    • BT3000 (x2)

    Construction Types Opinions

    Since I need to repair/rebuild the awning wind damage on the Playpen, I decided to go ahead and change the roof, too.

    Research on gambrel roofs gave the pitches for all the cuts on a 'standard' gambrel but it also said they can be designed almost any way you want. I started with the top pitch and ridge height with a template of the tops of the walls. The side slopes were added to allow a birdmouth. The tails will cut square to the walls so there is enough width for soffit vents. I will also add some venting in the ridge, although not full roof length.

    Before I add alignment blocks to the jig and start cutting parts, anything you see that won't work in the design? I know the bird's mouths don't cover the full top plate and the remaining wood is a little thin. I can compensate in both cases by nailing into the walls through the tails as well as down into the top plate.

    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by Pappy; 07-11-2008, 09:28 PM.
    Don, aka Pappy,

    Wise men talk because they have something to say,
    Fools because they have to say something.
    Plato
  • chopnhack
    Veteran Member
    • Oct 2006
    • 3779
    • Florida
    • Ryobi BT3100

    #2
    Don, due to concerns with high winds, you may want to look at replacing with the more wind resistant full hip design. IMHO. If not, beef up all your connection points with plywood gussets and strap well.
    I think in straight lines, but dream in curves

    Comment

    • dbhost
      Slow and steady
      • Apr 2008
      • 9209
      • League City, Texas
      • Ryobi BT3100

      #3
      He beat me to it. Don't worry about full hip. That structure isn't that big to worry about it 100%. BUT... Simpson Strong Tie straps, and possibly even adding some plywood gussets will go a LONG way to keeping the roof framing intact the next time a big blow comes through on ya!

      A full hip would be a real PITA on such a small building. Not impossible, but the benefit of a hip roof for such a small profile to begin with would be negligible I would think...
      Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

      Comment

      • TB Roye
        Veteran Member
        • Jan 2004
        • 2969
        • Sacramento, CA, USA.
        • BT3100

        #4
        Don

        I have that type of roof on my shop and it made for a nice loft for storage. The deck was an isperation from your shop and it has come in handy not only for breaks with the Grandchildren but as a sanding and assembly area but also to put the drill press or bandsaw when I need for room in the shop.. Gotta get up there and straighten up.

        Tom
        Attached Files

        Comment

        • jonmulzer
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2007
          • 946
          • Indianapolis, IN

          #5
          Are you building your own trusses or erecting in place? If they are trusses, you will need to triangulate them somehow. Ditto on the plywood bracing. Make sure you back it up with construction adhesive. A coil roofing nailer with 1 1/4"-1 1/2" nails will make trusses so much faster to put together if you can beg, borrow or steal one.
          "A fine beer may be judged with just one sip, but it is better to be thoroughly sure"

          Comment

          • leehljp
            Just me
            • Dec 2002
            • 8429
            • Tunica, MS
            • BT3000/3100

            #6
            Yours looks almost identical to the setup that I used 4 years ago to make about 13 frames. I used gusset braces on both sides of all of them except the outside of the end two, which were braced with plywood siding. I also used 1/4 inch ply inside which also added strength. The inside roof looks like the right picture of TB's above.

            One thing that I did which might seem like overkill was that I did not use a single nail in the frames - I used all screws. Even for the gussets, I white glued and used about 8 screws per side in each gusset. All paneling was added by screws too or glue and screws. No nails except for the roofing.

            The first season after it was constructed, we had a typhoon stall right over us and we endured 3+ hours of steady 100+ MPH winds. Not a drop got into the storage shed, nothing happened except 3 shingles blew off.
            Last edited by leehljp; 07-12-2008, 02:56 AM.
            Hank Lee

            Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

            Comment

            • cabinetman
              Gone but not Forgotten RIP
              • Jun 2006
              • 15218
              • So. Florida
              • Delta

              #7
              I'm with Hank on using screws. I know what they say about shear strength. Well, I'm down here in hurricane alley, and have seen stuff just get pulled apart...ring shanks or no ring shanks. I built my whole shed with screws.

              I also agree with more diagonal bracing, I call 'em jacks. The slight angle and butted joints only supported by an add on cleat may need more. Structures seem to fare well when directional forces meet resistance. I don't think "overkill" is far fetched.
              .

              Comment

              • Pappy
                The Full Monte
                • Dec 2002
                • 10453
                • San Marcos, TX, USA.
                • BT3000 (x2)

                #8
                'preciate the input. I should have gone further in my initial comments. The picture posted is just to show pitch and layout of the assembly jig. I have some 7/16 OSB that will be used for gussets on both side of the joints, attached with construction adhesive and nailed. The gussets on the outside of the end trusses will be plywood and a bit more decorative. A horizontal brace will be added just below the joint of the 2 pitches.

                3 1x6's on each pitch will tie them together and provide attachment points for the roofing.
                Last edited by Pappy; 07-12-2008, 05:42 AM.
                Don, aka Pappy,

                Wise men talk because they have something to say,
                Fools because they have to say something.
                Plato

                Comment

                • Hellrazor
                  Veteran Member
                  • Dec 2003
                  • 2091
                  • Abyss, PA
                  • Ridgid R4512

                  #9
                  Screws have poor shear strength and should not be use for framing. There are screws that are rated for framing, but they are expensive. If your framing job requires an inspection, they will most likely fail it for using screws.

                  Comment

                  • leehljp
                    Just me
                    • Dec 2002
                    • 8429
                    • Tunica, MS
                    • BT3000/3100

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Hellrazor
                    Screws have poor shear strength and should not be use for framing. There are screws that are rated for framing, but they are expensive. If your framing job requires an inspection, they will most likely fail it for using screws.
                    As you noted, it depends on the screws. I don't use cheap screws but construction grade screws, even in the States. It could be me, but I don't even entertain the thought of a cheap screw. Had enough of those twist off or heads stripped. "Good enough" mentality as it relates to "just good enough while staying cheap as possible" - is dangerous with construction.

                    In the few buildings and construction things that I have done, I have yet to find a screw back out and none have sheared. I will put my "screwed up jobs" ahead of any nailed jobs just about any time. In my experiences, through numerous quakes and a few fairly strong over the years, nails will loose their hold or strength - while screws will stay put. But then the screws I use are not the Walmart or Walgreen specials.

                    The other side of this same coin for me is that I will not use a nail when I can use a screw. I pity the fellow that tries to take apart something that I built!
                    Last edited by leehljp; 07-12-2008, 06:41 AM.
                    Hank Lee

                    Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

                    Comment

                    • cabinetman
                      Gone but not Forgotten RIP
                      • Jun 2006
                      • 15218
                      • So. Florida
                      • Delta

                      #11
                      Originally posted by leehljp
                      As you noted, it depends on the screws. I don't use cheap screws but construction grade screws, even in the States. It could be me, but I don't even entertain the thought of a cheap screw. Had enough of those twist off or heads stripped. "Good enough" mentality as it relates to "just good enough while staying cheap as possible" - is dangerous with construction.

                      In the few buildings and construction things that I have done, I have yet to find a screw back out and none have sheared. I will put my "screwed up jobs" ahead of any nailed jobs just about any time. In my experiences, through numerous quakes and a few fairly strong over the years, nails will loose their hold or strength - while screws will stay put. But then the screws I use are not the Walmart or Walgreen specials.

                      The other side of this same coin for me is that I will not use a nail when I can use a screw. I pity the fellow that tries to take apart something that I built!

                      I second that motion. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but in this area screws or nails are code approved for framing. Nails are more commonly used because they are cheaper and faster.
                      .

                      Comment

                      • BobSch
                        • Aug 2004
                        • 4385
                        • Minneapolis, MN, USA.
                        • BT3100

                        #12
                        Here's a site that shows a gambrel roof using only plywood gussets. Makes for much more headroom.

                        Bob

                        Bad decisions make good stories.

                        Comment

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