Electrical Question - Is this acceptable?

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  • Crash2510
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2006
    • 830
    • North Central Ohio

    #31
    Originally posted by sbs
    With respect, I would say that the houshold wiring advice I have seen given on this board over the years is far worse than the average DIYers, especially since it is rarely given with any caveats (as in "I am not an electrician, and I've never even seen a copy of the NEC but this is how I did it in my shop"...)

    Many of the code violations offered up as solutions on this board are FAQs on electrical forums - in the "what DIYers always do wrong" section.

    Although I know the NEC moderately well, I am not an electrician, so I try to point people to where they can find electricians online who are willing to help them learn how to do the work in a manner both safe and legal.

    I'll also suggest that you go to an electricians' forum and ask them if people with expertise in a field like woodworking are more or less likely than the general public to commit serious code/safety violations in electrical wiring.
    sbs

    I am somewhat confused as to what you consider to be serious code violations offered on this forum. If any have been stated they are often corrected shortly after the posting by many of the other members.

    I have seen a lot of advice given on this forum and in general it is very good. Many like myself do not put alot of the extra nec info on this forum because many people would not understand or care why something is allowed or not according to the nec. Many people including liscenced electricians do not understand every part of the nec, and do not have access to the book, but if they ask someone like the people of this forum they will get well researched an honest answers.

    i have seen much worse advice on other forums including forums for electrical questions, but if anybody were to ask why something could be done from now on an explanation could be given because it seems pointless to me to direct them to a number in the nec.

    In regards to those asking questions. It would only be intelligent for a person asking a question to read a number of responses to get a consensus of opinions on a matter, if they did not do this they are probably not qualified to do the work and should call a professional. Many of the people on this forum; however, are not stupid and would not ask a question unless they felt at least semi-comfortable doing the job, but often one of the first responses are to seek help if they do not feel comfortable.

    as larry said this may be a woodworking forum, but the members on this forum come from a very broad spectrum of backgrounds including the electrical fields and many are qualified to give answers to such questions.
    Phil In Ohio
    The basement woodworker

    Comment

    • LarryG
      The Full Monte
      • May 2004
      • 6693
      • Off The Back
      • Powermatic PM2000, BT3100-1

      #32
      Originally posted by Crash2510
      as larry said this may be a woodworking forum, but the members on this forum come from a very broad spectrum of backgrounds including the electrical fields and many are qualified to give answers to such questions.
      Actually, to give credit where it's due, it was Jon who said that. (Although I do agree with both him and you that there is no shortage of folks here who are qualified to answer questions on almost any topic.)

      Concerning protecting Romex in walls ... does what you wrote apply to Romex within open stud spaces, where the stud affords some protection, or only to Romex that is running on the surface of a wall, where it is more likely to get snagged? I have seen ... I think ... any number of garages and basements that were left unfinished (i.e., bare studs) that had Romex in the stud spaces, serving "hot" receptacles and switches. If this is in fact not code-compliant, offhand I can think of four possibilities:

      1. The NEC has changed.
      2. The provision requiring such Romex to be protected isn't being enforced.
      3. The circuits were bootlegged in, after the inspector drove off.
      4. My memory is faulty and what I saw was just the rough-in, and the circuits were not connected back at the panel.

      EDIT: I just spoke to our EE consultant on another matter, and took the opportunity to pose this question to him. He read through the relevant portions of the NEC while we were on the phone, and concluded that while the NEC says exposed Romex on walls MAY be protected where deemed necessary, he could find no provision anywhere that says it MUST be protected (excepting extreme cases like exposure to excessive moisture, hazardous chemicals, and the like). IOW, he thinks that what I remember seeing, above, complies with the NEC (2005 Edition).
      Last edited by LarryG; 06-13-2008, 04:01 PM.
      Larry

      Comment

      • cabinetman
        Gone but not Forgotten RIP
        • Jun 2006
        • 15218
        • So. Florida
        • Delta

        #33
        THIS SITE looks like a dedicated electrical discussion forum with professional members, FWIW.
        .

        Comment

        • Rand
          Established Member
          • May 2005
          • 492
          • Vancouver, WA, USA.

          #34
          My understanding is that you can run exposed romex on ceiling joists as long as they are over 8' high. Running it in a stud cavity in an unfinished wall or down the surface of an unfinished wall is a no-no.
          I am not an electrician. I have done quite a bit of wiring. I have worked on, bought, and sold several houses and have had inspectors call out the above condition.

          If this were my project I'd run the romex to just above where I wanted the outlet, put in a junction box and run metallic sheathed cable down to the new box. I have done that before and it passed inspection in California.
          Rand
          "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like your thumb."

          Comment

          • Crash2510
            Senior Member
            • Feb 2006
            • 830
            • North Central Ohio

            #35
            Originally posted by LarryG
            Actually, to give credit where it's due, it was Jon who said that. (Although I do agree with both him and you that there is no shortage of folks here who are qualified to answer questions on almost any topic.)

            Concerning protecting Romex in walls ... does what you wrote apply to Romex within open stud spaces, where the stud affords some protection, or only to Romex that is running on the surface of a wall, where it is more likely to get snagged? I have seen ... I think ... any number of garages and basements that were left unfinished (i.e., bare studs) that had Romex in the stud spaces, serving "hot" receptacles and switches. If this is in fact not code-compliant, offhand I can think of four possibilities:

            1. The NEC has changed.
            2. The provision requiring such Romex to be protected isn't being enforced.
            3. The circuits were bootlegged in, after the inspector drove off.
            4. My memory is faulty and what I saw was just the rough-in, and the circuits were not connected back at the panel.
            I took some time to look this up again in the 2008 NEC. The section you are looking for is 334.15 exposed work for non metallic sheathed cable type nm. Section c states that
            nm cable installed on the wall of an unfinished basement shall be permitted to be installed in a listed conduit or tubing or shall be protected in accordance with 300.4

            300.4 states that non metallic cables should be protected from physical damage . and sutible means of protection is conduit. whether emt, imc, ridgid, or pvc.

            I would say that this exposed wire would not be entirely code compliant(code is somewhat vague). Around here this has been enforced for quite a long time. But i have not looked up to see when this became part of the code.

            in many places they do not always enforce the code so it may not be the case that these were bootlegged as you call it while other areas require no inspection at all.

            imho it would definately be in everybodys best interest if easily accessable wires were protected. I would think this is more inportant in areas such as basements and garages where tools and wood could go flying into the exposed wires if you know what i mean
            Phil In Ohio
            The basement woodworker

            Comment

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