Shop Vac DC system layout help please!

[dbhost]

Okay, picture if you will, a 2 car garage. On the right rear wall is a niche that bumps back 26" from the main wall, and is 46" wide. Ideal for stowing that shop vac right? Okay the main wall is 9.5 feet wide from there, until you hit a door jam. That door jam butts up against the left wall of the garage.

This is my workshop.

The rear wall has an 8 foot workbench that runs up to the edge with the niche, and I want to put my other "stationary" tools along that left wall...

Mind you the BIG shaving makers, the Planer, and the jointer to be, are both bench top models and will be operated from on top of that workbench.

The stuff along the left wall will be...

#1. Router Table.

#2. Miter Saw.

#3. Band Saw. (Don't own one yet, but REALLY want a Grizzly GO555X with riser block).

#4. Vacuum port for running hose out into the driveway to clean out the cars.

So how on earth do I plumb this space for DC using the Shop Vac Sawdust Collection system?

I want 3 blast gates / ports usable by the bench, and 4 along the outside wall.

I have 2 kits on the way, and I had considered the following...

Running the pipe under the peg board, over the bench, and putting the Y's and blast gates at the bench, coming out at 9' and going with a 90 degree up the wall, to another 90 at the ceiling, this would be angled to run the pipe 45 degrees to the left wall, then a 90 to get the pipe back down to around 4' off the ground, and another 90 to run the rest of the way...

But that is a LOT of 90 degree bends...

Can someone suggest a better alternative?

[MikeMcCoy]

I really don't like it when someone answers one of my questions with an answer that wasn't one of my options..... Having said that .... I attempted to use a shop vac with a planer a time or two and that was enough frustration to send me out to get my current Delta dust collector. I filled up a 30 gallon trash can 3 times this past weekend milling lumber for one relatively small project. The space you mentioned is about big enough to house a dust collector.

[dbhost]

No worries. Yes I had considered a "real" dust collector. But the DCs that were in my price range do such a poor job of filtering (20-30 microns) that they weren't worth it. At least direct attached, my Ridgid Wet / Dry vac keeps up handsomely with my AP1301 planer. I tested it planing down some scrap 8" pine lumber when I first got it (that was my biggest concern, because if that didn't work, back to Home Depot with the vac!).

I expect to empty out the vac, a LOT... But I would MUCH rather empty a 12 gallon cylinder a little over 2x as much as a 30 gallon. Just a factor of weight and ackwardness...

My priorities were... #1. Effectiveness. The Ridgid vac was a bonus model that shipped with the HEPA filter, so filtration is NOT a problem.
#2. Cost. The cheapest I could have gotten a "Real" dust collector for is $140.00, that 30 micron Delta on Amazon.
#3. Space considerations. That niche I am putting it in, I have plans to build in a cabinet for the vac. I want to mount an air compressor on top of that, and leave a little bit of floor space for tall items.

Consider what it would cost in $$ and space to have a Dust control system that has the following features...

#1. Connects to each of my tools DC ports. I would have to reduce down to 2.5" on the largest of my tools... Why not start there?

#2. Ease of emptying. That Delta has a bad reputation for being difficult to empty and put the bag back on. The vac head snaps on and off.

#3. Full plumbing and blast gates.

#4. 50 feet of hoses and adapters.

#5. Fine Dust filtration. That puts us into the 2.5 micron filtering class DC systems, which puts just the DC unit itself at where my total $$ outlay is...

My cost so far.

Ridgid 12 gallon wet dry vac at HD $69.99
Shop Vac Sawdust collection system x2 at Shopvac.com $39.99 ($98 after shipping)
50 feet of 2.5" clear PVC vacuum hose, 8 hose end fittings $79.98 ($96 after shipping).
3 @ Ridgid Universal Tool Adapters. $6.99 @ Home Depot. ($20.97 + tax).

So we have...
$284.99

That would have gotten me a Grizzly 2HP 2.5 micron DC, with no shipping (Grizzly's shipping is a bit steep sometimes), and no way to connect it to any of my tools...

[LarryG]

My first thought was the same as Mike McCoy's: a shop vac is not a very satisfactory collection device for a thickness planer or jointer. That said, two ideas come to mind:

1. Build a shelf in the niche for the shop vac to sit on, placing its inlet high enough to clear the door head. This makes the main trunk a simple horizontal run with two 45s to negotiate the corner at the door. Add vertical drops at the various tools. This effectively gives you a total of two 90deg ells per tool.

The chief downside of this is that it puts the vac up high where emptying its drum will be more of a hassle. The upside is that you can use the niche space under its shelf for something else.

2. Plumb the workbench wall and the left wall separately, and move the vac between them, connecting its hose to whichever of the two sub-networks you're using at the time. Not very convenient, admittedly, especially when you're doing some operation that has you trotting back and forth between two tools that are on different runs. (But keep reading.)

A variation on idea #2 would be to find a place on the left wall for the shop vac and use the niche for something else. It may seem tailor-made for the shop vac but not if trying to route the piping involves a bunch of banjo work that will hamper the systems's performance. In terms of actual running time on the clock, you'll use dust collection most for the router table, miter saw, and future bandsaw. Since these most-used tools on are the left wall, IMO the shop vac should be, too. Jointers and planers are used heavily when milling lumber for a new project and not so much after that; a little inconvenience when you need those tools will be preferable to a system that's not performing as well as it could be.

[dbhost]

2. Plumb the workbench wall and the left wall separately, and move the vac between them, connecting its hose to whichever of the two sub-networks you're using at the time. Not very convenient, admittedly, especially when you're doing some operation that has you trotting back and forth between two tools that are on different runs. (But keep reading.)

A variation on idea #2 would be to find a place on the left wall for the shop vac and use the niche for something else. It may seem tailor-made for the shop vac but not if trying to route the piping involves a bunch of banjo work that will hamper the systems's performance. In terms of actual running time on the clock, you'll use dust collection most for the router table, miter saw, and future bandsaw. Since these most-used tools on are the left wall, IMO the shop vac should be, too. Jointers and planers are used heavily when milling lumber for a new project and not so much after that; a little inconvenience when you need those tools will be preferable to a system that's not performing as well as it could be.

Now this is why I asked. I hadn't considered that. Not super convenient to move the shop vac around all the time. BUT... It is certainly worth exploring.

I am already aware the miter saw is going to be a problem. I have been looking at the Big Gulp collector hoods, and think I can fab up something with a 2.5" connection that will work just as well out of sheet metal... And I know the band saw will likely use a 4" connector. I have a friend with a GO555 who has his necked down to a 2.5" and going to a shop vac, it works pretty well... Not perfect, but close enough for rock & roll you know?

I agree that a dedicated DC would be better for sure, but a good shop vac with a HEPA filter is arguably better at filtering and on the budget than a 30 micron DC...

I was trying to avoid moving the vac around, but it looks like I might just have to do that... Of course once it is in place, it is a simply matter of moving the hose from one port to another.

I think that will work fairly well for me actually....

[ksum]

I would recommend putting the vac as close to the center of the entire run as possible. Somewhere towards the back of your left wall. You would then have a wye from the vac with a gate at each side of the wye. The idea here being that the vac should be small enough to be out of the way when working with the tools, but close to reduce the loss from frisction in the pipes.

Make sure to put gates as close to any junction points as possible. You want to minimize the amount of pipe open to the system, even if there isn't any flow going thru. Otherwise you will loose more suction.

A connection at the end of the garage for the cars... I think I could do that with my full sized dc. Of course, then the wife would want to use it for a central vac as well.

Karl

[dbhost]

Okay, so maybe not a 100% ideal solution, but I think I have the dust control issues reasonably licked...

Step #1. Clean up everything I can get my hands on.
Step #2. Get shop vac, and tool adapters for my whole shop.
Step #3. Obtain and install shop vac sawdust collection plumbing. (Sure wish that stupid door wasn't there! Pending this install, moving to next step).
Step #4. Obtain, and install 20x20x1 pleated "Allergy rated" less than 1 micron according to the package, A/C filter onto 20" box fan via duct tape. (Not fancy, but functional).
Step #5. Run box fan, and clean, clean clean.
Step #6. Flashlight test. No suspended particles.
Step #7. Perform dust creating activity using box fan and shop vac setup.
Step #8. Flashlight test again. No visible suspended particles.

Advantages of this setup.
#1. MUCH lower cost when compared to single or two stage DC system. (The entire system cost less than a HF 5 micron 2hp DC unit shipped, THEN add the hoses, connectors, etc...)
#2. MUCH smaller footprint floor and wall space wise compared to a single or two stage DC system with 4" or larger line.
#3. No need to reduce to fit most of my tools. My planer, table saw, jointer to be etc... fit the 2.5" shop vac hose.
#4. MUCH finer filtration of fine dust particles compared to any dedicated single stage DC system I have seen on the market.
#5. Filter between debris and motor, unlike a DC that lets wood chips smash into the impeller.
#6. Easier to empty waste cylinder. I personally don't want to lift / move / empty more than 20 gallon waste cylinder. Younger guys with stronger backs might not mind, but I am feeling my years already...
#7. Keep ability for wet pickup. I have HAD to use this before and do not want to lose this ability.
#8. Air cleaner made with fan already in shop, a cheap filter, and duct tape.
#9. Lower cost allows me to be able to afford hoses and dedicated drops to all of my larger equipment, and drops to the bench.

Disadvantages of this setup.
#1. MUCH louder than a dedicated DC unit. (The add on muffler helps a LOT, but it is still louder than a "Real" DC...
#2. Smaller diameter 2.5" hose likely more prone to clogging.
#3. Vac motor more likely to wear our faster. Reason behind buying a Ridgid vac with the lifetime warranty.
#4. Lower CFM of the shop vac MAY be insufficient for certain machines. HOWEVER, the biggest culprit at making a DC system work hard is the planer, and mine under heavy use doesn't overrun the vac by a long shot, probably due to the smaller diameter hose being able to keep a good vacuum up.

The cost breakdown is thus...

Ridgid 12 gallon Wet Dry Vac with Bonus Filter from Home Depot online. $39.99 (On sale, I missed it and paid $69.99).
Ridgid Wet Dry Vac noise reducer / muffler from Home Depot. $12.99
50 Feet 2.5" Clear PVC Dust Collection Hose. Peachtree Woodworking. $49.99
8 @ 2.5" Screw In hose adapters no clamps needed. Peachtree Woodworking. $ 4.50 Each, $36.00 all.
2 @ Shop Vac Sawdust Collection System Kits. Shop Vac Online. $39.99 each. $78.98 all.
3 @ 2.5" to 3/4" rubber step down tool adapters. Peachtree Woodworking. $ 5.99 each. $17.97 all.
Pleated MERV 8 20x20x1 A/C / Furnace Filter. Home Depot. $ 5.99 each.
20" 3 speed box fan. Came out of my attic. But I should include it. $19.99
Roll Duct Tape to seal filter to box fan. $ 1.00 (Dollar store has duct tape).
Total for system, (had I got the vac on sale) Not incl S&H and tax. $262.90

Shipping charges from Shop Vac online. $16.00
Shipping charges from Peachtree Woodworking. $ 9.75
Sales Tax NOT calculated as that is a dead loss anyway...
Total for shipping and handling. $25.75

Total for system with shipping and handling charges. $288.65

Compared to...

Harbor Freight 2HP Industrial 5 micron Dust Collector. $239.99
HF 4" to 2.5" Dust Collection reducer. $ 2.99 each. $17.95 all.
50 Feet 2.5" Clear PVC Dust Collection Hose. Peachtree Woodworking. $49.99
8 @ 2.5" Screw In hose adapters no clamps needed. Peachtree Woodworking. $ 4.50 Each, $36.00 all.
4" x 20' clear PVC dust collection hose. Peachtree Woodworking. $34.99 Each, $69.88 all.
4" Quick Connect Blast Gate. Peachtree Woodworking. $ 4.99 each. $24.95 all.
4" steel hose clamps. Peachtree Woodworking. $ .80 each. $16.00 all.
4" steel hose hanger clamps. Peachtree Woodworking. $ .89 each. $17.80 all.
Shop Vac 2.5" Deluxe Cleanup Kit. $39.99
Total for system, reduced down to where my tools can use it. $512.65

Shipping charges from Shop Vac online. $16.00
Shipping charges from Peachtree Woodworking. $40.00
Sales Tax NOT calculated as that is a dead loss anyway...
Total for shipping and handling. $56.00

Total for system with shipping and handling charges. $568.65

Mind you the S&H charges for the dedicated DC stuff are guesses based upon prior experience, and comments published on the web sites.

I hope the advantages of the shop vac system weight out well in the years to come, and outweigh the disadvantages. I am reasonably certain I am going to give the warranty on the vac a good workout, aside from that, I do not anticipate any real problems.

On a side note, I have noticed something interesting lately...

With the weather warming up, I have noticed more than a few of my neighbors opening up their garage doors, and wheeling table saws out into the driveway to do some wood work. These are newer folks in the neighborhood, but it seems like I am not alone on my block... This could be a good thing...

[JR]

Nice, comprehensive write-up, dbhost. I'm not entirely convinced you'll keep this setup forever, but it's an outstanding beginning. If you eventually decide to go to a dedicated DC, a lot of this stuff will be re-usable.

You've done the most important thing, though. You've taken a strong, positive step forward to a clean, healthy environment. Nicely done.

JR

[dbhost]

JR.

The "system" itself, no, chances are good I won't. The individual pieces though, yeah, they will be around for years to come.

The wife and I are working on fixing up this suburban ranch style home with attached garage, in order to sell for a reasonable price, and move out to the county on some acreage. There is a family associated property we have our eyes on with a large garage that would be used for the cars, as it also has a shop building in place, that is already plumbed for a DC. (The current owner has stated he will leave the plumbing, but take the DC itself). I will probably keep the 2.5" tubing for the tools that need it, and neck it up to the 4" main...

For my 2 car garage setup I now have, this is good enough though...

I will likely have to look for a 2 stage system with a 2.5 micron or better filtration setup, and probably build one of those DIY ceiling mount air cleaners...

My purpose for the write up is to help folks that might be interested in doing something similar. Like I said. Not 100% ideal. But for the space and money constraints, it is a really good setup, and almost everything can be re-used in a bigger shop.

Oh, and I have already looked into a nice 1 micron bagged Delta 3HP DC. Very nice unit with good filtering, too big and out of the price range for now.

[dbhost]

***UPDATE*** The Shop Vac Sawdust Collection System and the 50 feet of PVC 2.5" clear hose and fittings all came in today. I made 3 10 foot hoses, and 1 20 foot hose, I went ahead and ran one circuit the way I had originally planned going up over the door and back around the side wall. Everything dumps into the shop vac in the cubby.

To test the system I set the planer (the biggest sawdust maker I own, and producer of problematic shavings) and ran 2 4x4s side x side through it for a total of 6 passes. The result?

Some suction leakage as the shop vac fittings and tube aren't a real tight fit.

The solution?

Wrap the ends of each pipe with 1 winding of black electrical tape, and shimmy the whole system back together and retest.

The result after the solution?

No noticable drop in suction, and the velocity of the material through the tubing is low enough that it is not a problem negotiating any of the turns.

I think I am good to go. I have some final tweaking, and a few more clamps to install, but overall, I think I set up a pretty nice dust collection system on the cheap.

I am going to try to finalize the assembly and all, and get some shots of it to y'all this weekend.

I hope my fussing and testing here hasn't annoyed anyone, and that my experiences here at least help somebody that thought it might have been out of their means, to set up dust control in their home shop.

Would I recommend this setup for a commercial shop? Not on your life! And even hobbyists with higher capacity machines that can produce more waste material, or guys that can somehow run three machines at once, well... They are S.O.L. on this one! But for most of the guys I know, and home shops I have seen, this might just be the ideal setup for other folks too!