HF Dust Collector - consensus on pipe size

[Westex93]

I know this discussed every so often, but thought an updated thread may be good. Anyhow, do how how many "Harbor Freight dust collector" threads there are out there? Would take all day to sift through 'em!

Last consensus I remember is that 5" is ideal but costly and a lot of people have good results with 4". What was the opinion on 6"? I do plan on doing the canister conversion in the next couple of months. I also like the thought of an add on cyclone/separator in the future. How would these impact air flow? Would their inclusion in the system sway you more toward one size or the other?

My biggest dust monster is my Delta drum sander. And it is a dust monster! I kinda worry about 4" giving enough volume to support it. It will be situated to be the shortest run in the shop (pretty well right next to the DC). In fact, all of my major dust generating machines will be pretty close to the DC with the farthest not more than 8' or so.

So whatcha think?

Wes

[LCHIEN]

larger dia. is lower restriction so you can maximize CFM.
However, the velocity within that pipe will be reduced, possibly allowing larger, heavy particles to be dropped. However, a drum sander won't be making too many chips (mostly chips are the province of jointers and planers and maybe routers and saws).

I think with the HF the probably CFM flow rates with 6" pipe allow too low a veloicty - falls below the rule of thumb velocity levels desireable. The 4" limits the max flow rate. That's kind of why the 5" is optimal.

[cgallery]

I think with the HF the probably CFM flow rates with 6" pipe allow too low a veloicty - falls below the rule of thumb velocity levels desireable. The 4" limits the max flow rate. That's kind of why the 5" is optimal.

And if you run 6" as a main and then smaller (4") pipe to the tools (as many people seem to do), you may complicate matters because the HF may not have the omph to pull enough CFM through the 4" to keep the particles suspended in the 6". Does that make sense?

[JR]

I have all 4" pipes. Works like a champ. I do not have a drum sander.

JR

[maxparot]

I'm set up with all 4" S&D pipe running overhead with gates at each drop and I have not had a blockage within the pipes. The only blockage I have had was at the jointer which isn't well designed for dust collection. Aside from that I've been very happy with the performance. I do however have the Wynn filter conversion. If I were starting from scratch and could find a economical 5" pipe I'd use that for the main line with 4" reductions for each drop. Using 6" pipe won't gain much since the port on the dust collector is 5" and will govern the max flow.

[dkhoward]

ny whole shop is plumbed with 4" S&D to the HF unit. It works like a charm. I have not had any problems with it and my dust problems are minimal.

[John Hunter]

I use 4" S&D, works great.

[softop41]

4" S&D mains and drops here too. No problems since I put it in 18 months ago.
Jerry

[windmill]

I also use 4" S&D, it works great. Added the Wynn canniser (paper filter) and it's made a huge difference, both in terms of reducing the finer dust particles as well as improved air flow (the stock bags really clog up quickly). I highly recommend you add a trash can separator as well.

I'm sure that 4" doesn't do much for capturing the really fine dust, but with 1.5HP, the velocity in a 6" pipe would drop too much. 5" pipe may be a good compromise, but it means you're going metal, not PVC.

[ironhat]

HF w/ 4" PVC (I was ignorant of S&D pipe at the time of purchase) - pretty well satisfied with the caveat that I have the DC in the garage and plumbed through the separating wall into the shop. So, for me at least, the stock bags give better flow without the micro particles attacking my lungs.

[JR]

So, for me at least, the stock bags give better flow without the micro particles attacking my lungs.

IIRC, the pleated filters improve flow vs the bags, even while improving filtration to 1 micron. It's due to the increased surface area offered by the pleats.

JR

[ironhat]

Yea, JR you're absolutely right. I failed to make myself clear in that I was talking about upgraded bags vs stock. I *think* that's a correct statement - I hope.

[Westex93]

Thanks, all. I understand the cost thing on 4", but I'm thinking with the info here that maybe I need to be on the lookout for some 5". My primary focus is to reduce the "fines" in the air, so I'm thinking I really need to get all the HF "2HP" can do. BTW, thanks for talking me out of the 6", since it seems it won't have the velocity I need with the 1 1/2 HP unit. As a guitar builder, I tend to thickness a lot of exotics that are known to be extremely toxic, and the escaping fines, of course, are the most dangerous of all. Eventually I figure to be able to get a "real" cyclone unit, but for the time being I need to work with what I've got. (I'm sure a lot of y'all can relate.)

If I understand right, the "trash can" separator is more for dropping out the heavier particles, while I've heard amazing reviews that a "true" cyclone does a great job dropping out the finer dust. Sound right to y'all?

Sooo.... sounds like 5" may be money well spent? (After all, I won't need THAT much of it.) I will also use an ambient air filter for additional filtering. This may do more good for the dust than anything.

And, any experience on adding a true cyclone unit like Clearvue inline with the HF DC? Or, when I get to that stage, I wonder if I'm better off selling off the HF and upgrading the whole system to a stand-alone cyclone unit?

[windmill]

If you are really concerned about the fine dust, the HF unit, or any other small dust collector is not going to cut it. You'll need a real cyclone separator with a 3+HP motor, a large impeller, and 6" pipe. I suggest you take a look at Bill Pentz' web site (just google the name).

Bill's information on Cubic Feet per Minute, static pressure, horse power etc. appears to be accurate. I have not seen anyone dispute the data. But, be warned that Bill has developed strong allergies to wood dust, and he tries to convey the dangers to people visiting the site. You'll have to decide for yourself how much of a risk the fine dust is.

Unfortunately, upgrading isn't really feasible with dust collection. You either get the big machine and the big pipes, or the small machine with the small pipes. One with the other won't work. For a medium sized shop, a true cyclone system, with 6" plumbing will probably cost you $2000 - $2500. On the other hand, the HF unit, with replacement filter and 4" plumbing will be ~$500. Big difference. And even though this system won't get all the fine dust, it's better than nothing. You can expect to recoup maybe $200 if you sold off the system after a couple of years.

[maxparot]

If you are really concerned about the fine dust, the HF unit, or any other small dust collector is not going to cut it. You'll need a real cyclone separator with a 3+HP motor, a large impeller, and 6" pipe. I suggest you take a look at Bill Pentz' web site (just google the name).

Bill's information on Cubic Feet per Minute, static pressure, horse power etc. appears to be accurate. I have not seen anyone dispute the data. But, be warned that Bill has developed strong allergies to wood dust, and he tries to convey the dangers to people visiting the site. You'll have to decide for yourself how much of a risk the fine dust is.

Unfortunately, upgrading isn't really feasible with dust collection. You either get the big machine and the big pipes, or the small machine with the small pipes. One with the other won't work. For a medium sized shop, a true cyclone system, with 6" plumbing will probably cost you $2000 - $2500. On the other hand, the HF unit, with replacement filter and 4" plumbing will be ~$500. Big difference. And even though this system won't get all the fine dust, it's better than nothing. You can expect to recoup maybe $200 if you sold off the system after a couple of years.

All that being said unless you have allergies on the order of those that Bill has you probably will never suffer any ill effect using the HF 2 hp w/ Wynn conversion. If the fine dust is more of a worry to you a HEPA Shop air filter for an additional $300 may be more cost effective and a healthy good alternative that also may consume less space in your shop.