Wierd dust collector idea

**LCHIEN** · 03-27-2007, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by thestinker

Had a idea / question.. From the little bit of reading I ave been doing a dust collector along with a cyclone and some sort of small particle filter is the way to go. However, room / $$$ is kind of a problem right now and the small shop vac cyclone really intreagues me. I was wondering if anyone had tried / thought of this before and had any info on wether it would be worth doing or not. Lets say you had one of these small cyclones hooked up to a 30 or so gallon drum (the one I'm thinking about is a formed steel drum with a lid attached by a snap ring around the top. The cyclone is plumed to a short / small DC run like 10 or so feet of pipe maybe 2.5" or 3" in diameter with a couple of wyes and blast gates going to equipment. Powering this is 2 shop vacs attached with a wye into the inlet (or outlet dpending o how you look at it) of the cyclone. The shop vacs having hepa filters should put out pretty clean air (I think). Also I beleive the inlets on the cyclone are 2.5", so having your runs in 2.5" wouldn't make that much difference. I guess my questions are: would 2 vacs give you a larger ammount of air going through your pipe / provide more suction / give better results than 1. And am I right about the inlets and pipe size.

This may be a dumb idea, and if it is please tell me so. I have no practicle exp with dust collectors and have read enough to know there is a lot of conflicting opions out there and a ton of info... Basicly, I know enough to ask rediculus questions and dream up frankinstein shop vac DC systems

Shop vacs have small impellors of slightly different construction they give more vacuum but less overall air flow. CFMs probably on the order of 50-100 CFM vs DC on the order of 500-1000 CFM. So even two in parallel/Wye would be outperformed (and likely use more power) by one DC.

**Jes Pidlin** · 03-28-2007, 09:30 AM

Also, two shopvacs would take up about as much room as a DC, and would cost around $150. For $20 more you could get a Harbor Freight DC. They usually run them on sale more than at regular price, so you wouldn't have to wait long.

**LarryG** · 03-28-2007, 09:41 AM

Slightly hijacking the thread ... what about hooking up two dust collectors in a similar arrangement? I already have one HF 2HP DC. We all know that it actually moves considerably less air than claimed. It has occurred to me that I could get a second one and connect both to a main trunk line with a wye, exactly as thestinker proposes with his dual shop vac idea.

The power requirements and the footprint space are two obvious issues, but those aside ... would this provide the same CFM as a larger DC that moved exactly twice as much air as one of the HF units?

**thestinker** · 03-28-2007, 10:17 AM

The cost of the DC only really isnt the problem. Its the wynne filter canister + the larger cyclone that are detering me from getting one. I have 1 shop vac already. If homedepot puts them on sale again for 40 bucks, then the second one isn't that big of investment. I just didn't know if it wold be worth it or not. I also didn't know how the cyclone would stand up to double the suction with 2 shop vacs and would two give me close to double the power / CFM / suction....

**LCHIEN** · 03-28-2007, 11:22 AM

to the stinker,
you did not specify a cyclone you inteded to use. obviously they're limited to CFM by the size of the cyclone and its ports. Vacs can put up more vacuum (negative pressure) than DCs, possibly if you close off the inlet and have two vacs sucking on the output port of a sheet metal cyclone could spell sudden death for the cyclone.

Larry,
Airflow adds. I think two DCs wy'ed to a main line will work in theory. What Pentz's curves say is that you need 5-6" lines for a 1.5 HP DC. You'll have the eqiv flow of a 3 HP DC or so and will need some prettyy massive pipes to keep the restriction down to a level those dcs can handle. otherwise, with incresed flow the restriction losses of small pipe will go up and then limit the head (which is not additive) which will prevent you from reaching max CFMs and you will have no gain. I think we're talking bigger than 6" dia piping, maybe.

**thestinker** · 03-28-2007, 01:10 PM

LCHIEN-

I had planned on using the clearview one for shopvacs, that or I sw one on ebay similar to the clearview on ly made of sheet metal for about 1/2 the cost. I don't knwo what they can handle as far as pressures or waht not. Also for all I know 1 shop vac will be plenty and capture most of what I want anyway. I work with the big door open, so being stuck inside with "contaminated air" isn't my main concern. Its always cleaning up piles of saw dust off the floor.

Riley

**LCHIEN** · 03-28-2007, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by thestinker

LCHIEN-

I had planned on using the clearview one for shopvacs, that or I sw one on ebay similar to the clearview on ly made of sheet metal for about 1/2 the cost. I don't knwo what they can handle as far as pressures or waht not. Also for all I know 1 shop vac will be plenty and capture most of what I want anyway. I work with the big door open, so being stuck inside with "contaminated air" isn't my main concern. Its always cleaning up piles of saw dust off the floor.

Riley

if those plastic ones (acrylic I presume) are 1/2" thick then they will may hold up. A sheet metal one, I suspect, might fold up catastrophically if you deadend the inlet. Guessing wildly, of course. Best to ask the seller.

**Thom2** · 03-28-2007, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by LCHIEN

to the stinker,
you did not specify a cyclone you inteded to use. obviously they're limited to CFM by the size of the cyclone and its ports. Vacs can put up more vacuum (negative pressure) than DCs, possibly if you close off the inlet and have two vacs sucking on the output port of a sheet metal cyclone could spell sudden death for the cyclone.

Okay Mr. Loring, I have a question

If a shop vac is only capable of pulling 5" of vacuum .... wouldn't the total vacuum be 5" regardless of how many shop vacs were hooked up? Perhaps 2 would get to 5" faster than just 1, but when there isn't enough air for impeller to pull, wouldn't they both just stall @ 5"??????

**thestinker** · 03-28-2007, 03:57 PM

if those plastic ones (acrylic I presume) are 1/2" thick then they will may hold up. A sheet metal one, I suspect, might fold up catastrophically if you deadend the inlet. Guessing wildly, of course. Best to ask the seller.

Good idea...here is what I sent the uys at clear vue cyclones:

Was looking at your shop vac cyclone. I have a small hobie shop and don't have the money or space for a full blown DC + full size cyclone + pleated filter kit +all the large pipe and expense with all that. My set up is a work bench about 10ft long with a couple of tools on it and a table saw at the end. Running 2.5 in pipe along the bench with a drop at each tool and dead ending at the saw. 35 gal can with your small cyclone on it, what kind of job would that do for me? Also, would putting a second shop vac in parallel add to the ability to capture more stuff / make up for the loss of power associated with the length of pipe and flex hose in the drop? Also would your product hold up to the force of 2 vacs. I have a 5 hp rigid shop vac with hepa filter, so the second vac would be along these lines.

Thank you
Riley Stewart

I will let you know what he says...

**TheRic** · 03-28-2007, 04:21 PM

Larry, instead of connecting two DC to one LARGE pipe. Have 2 DCs on opposite ends of the building. Half the equip goes to one DC, the other half of the equip goes to the other DC. The runs would be shorter which should help with the airflow. The pipes would be smaller which would help with the pocketbook, and hassle of getting them into place.

**LarryG** · 03-29-2007, 06:44 AM

Loring: I had wondered about the pipe size ... whether two identical DCs might take the main trunk size requirement right on past the expected/desired 6" and right on to a very expen$ive 8" or even larger.

Ric: That's a good idea. Not only would the runs to each machine be shorter, they'd likely be easier to route thru the shop (having to dodge obstacles being one of the main contributors to long runs).

Another possibility would be to connect one DC to hard ducting and keep the other one free to roll around to serve machines that are themselves on mobile bases. For example, roll out the planer, roll out the portable DC, hook up a short length of hose, and start making chips. Hmmm ...

**Jeffrey Schronce** · 03-29-2007, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by LCHIEN

Airflow adds. I think two DCs wy'ed to a main line will work in theory. What Pentz's curves say is that you need 5-6" lines for a 1.5 HP DC. You'll have the eqiv flow of a 3 HP DC or so and will need some prettyy massive pipes to keep the restriction down to a level those dcs can handle. otherwise, with incresed flow the restriction losses of small pipe will go up and then limit the head (which is not additive) which will prevent you from reaching max CFMs and you will have no gain. I think we're talking bigger than 6" dia piping, maybe.

You are the engineer, so I must keep my opinion at a minimum! LOL! However, I don't understand why you would need 8" + piping for (2) 1.5 HP HF units which would be moving about 1000 CFM. 6" is adequate (and recommended) for 5 HP Onieda Cyclone, etc. What is the difference?

**dwk** · 03-29-2007, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by Jeffrey Schronce

However, I don't understand why you would need 8" + piping for (2) 1.5 HP HF units which would be moving about 1000 CFM. 6" is adequate (and recommended) for 5 HP Onieda Cyclone, etc. What is the difference?

The difference is the amount of suction generated. Two 1.5HP units in parallel don't generate any more suction pressure than one; they simply can consume more airflow at the same suction pressure. Thus, to get double the airflow at the same pressure differential, you need less restriction, and that means larger pipes.

The 5HP Oneida generates higher suction pressure, and so can sustain higher airflow with smaller ducting.

**Russianwolf** · 03-29-2007, 08:40 AM

If room is an issue, then make your own version of this....

http://www.amazon.com/708630-DC-TS65...177949&sr=8-26

2 SVs and a barrel are taking up 10-12 ft2 roughly. This thing takes up about 4. My HF DC takes up about 6 and my separator another 4, but I have plenty of room.

Now cost to make one?

DC $100 for something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-1-HP-MINI-DU...QQcmdZViewItem

and filter $50 for something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/TORIT-CARTRIDGE-...QQcmdZViewItem

add some inginuity, and you can have it put together in no time.

Wierd dust collector idea

Wierd dust collector idea

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