Questions On New Shop

[Pappy]

The disassembly on the building I bought is going good. It sould be down and moved by Thursday or Friday.

Now time to start thinking and planning for set up. The size is 24' x 26'8" on the outside, so figure 23'6" x 26'2" on the inside. I plane to convert the double door to a single entry door on the side and add eiother a roll up or garage door on the end. Additionally, there will be 2 or 3 sliding windows on each side wall for natural light. The building came with six 4' double tube lights and I have access to about 12 more at $5.00 each. I'm thinking 3 rows of lights with 5 lights per row. That would put the spacing at just over 4'. Enough? Overkill?

Next question is on the strength of the roof purlins. The ends are I beams with five 10" by 3" Zee purlins running the length of the building. Would these be strong enough to support a second floor. Idea is to weld plates up from the sides of the 4 outside purlins and bolt doubled up 2x's on them to bring them up level with the ridge then build a second floor with a gambrel (barn) roof above the shop. Knee walls would be built above the outboard purlins, making them load bearing for the roof.

[LarryG]

Not one of the questions you asked, but ... in lieu of an overhead door, what about retaining the existing double doors, orienting the building so they're on the desired side, and adding a new single walk door on the "front"? A lot of people include an overhead door in a dedicated shop building but I think it's kind of a knee-jerk reaction. There's no woodworking tool that won't go in through a pair of walk doors, and no project you'll build that won't come out. (Disregard my meddling if you want to be able to pull a vehicle inside.)

You can consult a structural engineer, but I wouldn't count on being able to add a second floor. Pre-engineered metal building components are typically right on the minimum of what they need to be in order to support the intended load. Ordinary floor loads are at least double those for roofs, and floor loads intended for storage (if that's what you'll use it for) are higher yet.

[SARGE..g-47]

I'll pass on the roof structure Pappy, but will add on the lighting question. My converted garage has about 850 sq. ft. with limited natural light (built under garage as house on slope and same space in 1/2 basement (fortunate when things get tight)which is shop II. The only natural light is from two sections of windows in the two sliding garare door panels about 18" x 22" each.. total of eight.

I would love more natural light even though in warmer weather I can open both doors fully. But.. I cannot over-emphasize the need for light. Over-kill as you stated? I don't think there can be an over-kill in shop lighting!

Put all three rows as you mentioned up IMO. If ya got em.. use em! If ya go to a sliding door (doesn't sound necessary with double doors and no cars as Larry mentioned), I would only install one and consider dropping in more natural light windows. Of course if the budget allows. What you got will work just fine without going into a tinker mode. ha.. ha...

Regards...

[smc331]

Pappy,

If I had it to do over again (next shop?), I would go with double doors or a sliding door. The garage door eats up a lot of valuable ceiling real estate when it's open. I guess with a high enough ceiling it would not be a real issue, but that's space that's useful for ductwork, etc. You do have the natural light when the door is open, but the garage-style door will eclipse any ceiling mounted lighting. Just my $.02...

[footprintsinconc]

would have to agree with scott on the garage door. it will take up valuable roof area where you would have lighting, ducts and all. you may want two sliding door, rather than have them open outwards. this way they will take up less room and will open without haveing to go all the way out.

lighting, there is never an overkill. if you can get more natural lighting, do so. IMOH, i live it over tube lighting during the day time. cant beat that.

as for the 2nd floor, garry is right. so here is some food for the thought:

roof loads, depending on what part the country it is, are different. with snow loads, and depending on the pitch of the roof and parapet heights, the design load can be as high as 30psf and up 50psf localized to parapets, etc. if there is no snow, then you are looking at 20 psf reducible. these are just the design live loads on top of the structure dead load (which is not much for a roof). on the contrary, for a 2nd floor, storage area design live load is 100 psf (lightest, but for storage the new codes states 125 for light and 150 for heavy). the floor you build is going to be much heavier than just the metal sheeting, thus increasing the DL of the floor. then you also have lateral stability (if siesmic is an issue) to consider. lastly, roof structures, where deflections will not cause any architectural problems, have a higher allowable deflections. however, floors have stricter deflection control, so this is anothe issue that may need to be looked.

keep in mind, all preengineered buildings (precast conrete- thats me or steel buildings) are always designed to their max. sometimes, i can make certains things work for concrete sturctures, but the steel industry is very efficient especially when it comes to pre-engineered metal buildings. that is why if you really want the 2nd floor, my advice is going to be get a structural engineer out and let him/her see the structure first hand.

well thats it, good luck!

regards,

[Ken Massingale]

I'm not comfortable with the lights, Pappy. It doesn't seem that there will be enough light at the side walls. As the others said, can't have too much. I installed pull chain switches in the floresent fixtures that I thought would not be needed all the time, they have proven to be handy.

I am definitely not qualified to comment on the 2nd floor.

[Garasaki]

Well, I'll chime in another:

You can never have too many lights.

I have 9 (2) lamp 4'-er's in my 450 sq ft garage and wish I had twice as many (even though someone once commented "boy it's like daylight in here with all these lights").

Worst case scenerio is to have lots of switching options if your concerned about overkill (or pull cords as mentioned above).

[Pappy]

Progress update.

As of this evening this is where I am.



Got to work tomorrow but by Wednesday evening the onlything standing should be end frames.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Are you running T-8 or T-12 lights? Are the bulbs HD or Lowes cool white or are they full spectrum? If you are buying new fixtures be sure to use T-8 as T-12 will become obsolete. T-8 full spectrum lamps are EXPENSIVE.

Have you considered adding some halogen lamps on the side of your shop?

Someone mentioned adding pull string fixtures. I would simply run two seperate breakers/switches. During high natural light times I would run just one circuit.

I am not ready to start running my shop expansion ideas around yet as it will be a few months before I begin, but I am planning a 600sf addition onto my current shop. I am considering putting some halogen flood lamps on the sides of the walls to reduce shadows. They create so much heat though . . . .

[Kristofor]

Vice versa, T-8's are the ones that are sticking around.

[Pappy]

The fixtures are being salvaged from the site, so I am guessing they are T-12.

[Pappy]

Wednesday evening. The only thing standing are the end frames and one purlin that has some of the angle iron from the pipe supports welded to it. The bolts are loose on the prulin and the corner joints have one bolt holding each one.



Wall panels loaded for the trip home.



Should be able to get the rest of it down today (and home if I can get a longer trailer), pull the lights from the main building, and salvage/bag enough insulation to cover all the walls.

[LCHIEN]

I don't think Pappy has to worry about snow loads in San Marcus, TX.
Pappy, will the shop be insulated and A/C - heated?
What kind of power outfitting do you have in mind?

I think double doors would be enough unless you wanted to
Build a boat, or park cars or ocassional trailers, or
have the door open in the summer (because you don't plan on A/C)

[Pappy]

Didn't have my camera with me today but the rest of the framing is down and staged with the roof panels to be loaded on a trailer.

Not sure about the AC yet. I may add a window unit down the road. There is a lot of unfaced insulation available for the taking in the main building. I figured it will take about 120 batts to cover the walls, just have to figure how/where to store it for a while.

I have been rethinking the large door. Unless I can come up with a used roll up, I may stick with the double doors.

I am going to have a new power drop to the shop installed. Don't have enough power available from the house panel and it would be too far too run a subpanel.

[wardprobst]

Didn't have my camera with me today but the rest of the framing is down and staged with the roof panels to be loaded on a trailer.

Not sure about the AC yet. I may add a window unit down the road. There is a lot of unfaced insulation available for the taking in the main building. I figured it will take about 120 batts to cover the walls, just have to figure how/where to store it for a while.

I have been rethinking the large door. Unless I can come up with a used roll up, I may stick with the double doors.

I am going to have a new power drop to the shop installed. Don't have enough power available from the house panel and it would be too far too run a subpanel.

Pappy,
I did a new drop at my previous shop and ended up redoing it to run off of the house panel. Why? The dang electric company *TXU* considers a second meter on a property as commercial. I was paying $20 for service before I drew a watt. You may want to check that out. I've seen subpanels run quite a distance to barns etc. up here.
DP