circuit breaker uses?

[jessrice]

afternoon all,

as some as you may know, by the nuber of questions i ask, I am in the process of building a shop.

Anyway, i just purchased a box of used Square D QO circuit breakers from a retired electrician off ebay. It was a pretty wide range of them, totaling 90 breakers, for 123.50 after the bidding was done. After shipping they are about 1.90 each, which is about 75% less than new for the 15 and 20 amp singee poles which totaled about 60 of 90.

The rest was a mix of 2 poles in 20, 30, 50 amps, and twin 15/15, 15/20, and 20/20, plus a few GFCI's. That fianlly brings about my question.

What would be the best use for the 15 amp two pole 220. and the 20 amp 2 pole 220 breakers? I also received some 20 amp single poles, and will use those for outlets. But what are the double pole 15, and 20 amps used for. If it was 50, i would say hot tub. Any suggestions?

thanks for the help

Jesse

[Stormbringer]

What would be the best use for the 15 amp two pole 220. and the 20 amp 2 pole 220 breakers?

What are the double pole 15, and 20 amps used for?

Jesse,

Is this two different questions or are you referring to the same breakers in each question. Another words, do you have 15 and 20 amp 220v breakers and double pole 15 and 20 amp 110V breakers?

Greg

[TheRic]

...
Anyway, i just purchased a box of used Square D QO circuit breakers from a retired electrician off ebay. It was a pretty wide range of them, totaling 90 breakers, for 123.50 after the bidding was done. After shipping they are about 1.90 each, which is about 75% less than new for the 15 and 20 amp singee poles which totaled about 60 of 90.

The rest was a mix of 2 poles in 20, 30, 50 amps, and twin 15/15, 15/20, and 20/20, plus a few GFCI's. That fianlly brings about my question.

What would be the best use for the 15 amp two pole 220. and the 20 amp 2 pole 220 breakers? I also received some 20 amp single poles, and will use those for outlets. But what are the double pole 15, and 20 amps used for. If it was 50, i would say hot tub. Any suggestions?

First off Square D makes a Homeline and a QO line. The breakers are NOT interchangeable. I have Homeline in my house, and QO in my garage. I hope you got what you needed / can use.

The double pole 15 amp and 20 amp:
They can be used for things like 220V AC, an Air Handler might need 220V, Small Furnace, Water heater, baseboard heater, etc If for a business it could have been used for any number of items that would be hooked up for 220v. Like an Air compressor, cooler,

For your shop you can use them for AC, heater, Air Compressor, baseboard heater, water heater, any power tools that you are talking about hooking up 220V, like a 48" double head drum sander.

Are you talking about two breakers on 1 pole (1 slot, 110V, etc). IF so we called them piggyback breakers (probably not correct name). It allowed you to us one slot for "two" breakers, in case you were running out of space in the panel box. Say you added a receptacle in your basement. The panel box is full, you could replace the single 15 amp breaker, and put in a piggyback breaker, old wiring on one, new wiring on the other. Each one operates independent of the other.

[jessrice]

sorry,

i clearly left out a very important part of the question, making me look even more so that i should not be doing things myself! But rest assured i have done several electrical jobs in the last decade, and am friends with the local electrical inspector, so i do have some skills, and can pass inspection.

Anyway, the part i forgot to state is that I am asking about GFCI double pole 220v 15 and 20 amp breakers.

I got several 15, 20, and 30 amp regular double pole breakers, and will use those for my heaters in the bathroom and utility, plus the dryer and water heater. I will use the 40 amp for welder/plasma, plus i want to get an old oven to do powder coating in so the 50 will be used as well.

But it is the GFCI's that i didn't know how to put to use. If it was a 50 amp GFCI, then i would use it for a hot tub. But i couldn't think of any appliance or device to use in the shop that would need GFCI protection and only 15 or 20 amps. I think most shop/motor related things would pull enough of a current to pop a GFCI.

I do have Square DO QO panels, 2 of them for the 320 amp service i am putting in, which is why I bought such a large quantity of breakers. And now i have about 80% or what i need, including some extras for spares or ones that are weak.

So please forgive my miss post and see if you can think of anything i would want to protect with GFCI 15 and 20 amp 220v breakers!

thanks
Jesse

[TheRic]

When I got out of the Electric business 20+ years ago GFCI were just starting to come out. Not sure what the current code requires them for. You inspector friend might be able to help.

It sounds like you are thinking residential use only. The breakers could have come from a retired electrician who did small business, commercial work. If you don't need them, you might be able to recoup some of your money by selling them. I would guess those are the more expensive ones out of the group.

[LCHIEN]

Gfci

GFCI are used for places where current might be diverted through a person causing electrocution. This is generally in wet areas where grounded, moist conditions give a return path for electricty to ground.
In normal usage all electricity stays in the two main conductors and none goes to ground. When a person conducts from either of these conductors to ground that is a ground fault. The GFCI see small changes in teh difference in currents between the two conductors which is assumed to be shunted into a person to ground via a grounded pipe or water on contact with ground or a grounded pipe. Then it disconnects the electricity instantly.

Most codes require GFCI in kitchens and bathrooms and utility rooms where a water source and plumbing might be assuming a fair chance that the persons might be standing in pools of water or in contact with plumbing.

Most codes also require them to protect outdoor outlets assuming that someone using tools plugged into these may be standing on wet or moist ground. Some codes require them in garages. This is apparently not universal at least the interpretation of whether your garage is indoors or outdoors. Maybe it depends on whether there's a water heater in the garage? or whether water can get in in normal use?

[jessrice]

In my past experience, and looking through my electrical code cheat book, The GFCI outlets are definitely required in the kitchen, bathroom, garage, and outdoor outlets(wet areas)

They are not required for freezers, or refrigerators, or other appliances that are not easily moved, such as dishwashers, garbage disposal's, or ovens, inlcuding wet areas. It is also my understanding, at least with early GFCI devices, that the quick, high draw of a some motors and heaters, especially compressor motors, can falsely trip a GFCI. I can personally say from experience that the big dewalt wheel barrel compressor i use to frame with readily trips GFCIs, but is fine with normal breakers.

After a few hours of thinking, i can not come up with any practical uses for such a low amperage 220 device in the shop. I might try to use them with the toe kick space heaters that i am mounting in the utility room and bathroom cabinet toe kicks, since they are directly on the concrete, and if the wash machine or toilet did over flow they could hit the heaters. But, I am not sure they will handle the high draw of a heater coil with out falsely tripping. So i guess i will wait and see.

Ideally these could see these used with an in bathroom spa tub or sauna, since both of these normally require lower amps than a full size hot tub, but the same protection. However, the jacuzzi tub i just installed for my mother only required 110v 20 gfci outlets, one for the pump, one for the heater. maybe a swimming pool pump is what these are designed for?

I think the 2002 rules for the NEC state that a 220v circuit does not need gfci protection, nor does a circuit that is hard wired, or has a specialty plug, which covers things like stoves, welders, RV's and the such, except for pools and spas. This basically leaves ony 120v 15 and 20 amp circuits in wet locations requiring GFCI.


These are expensive breakers to buy new, at least 100.00, so i will probably just hold onto them, in case something does come up. And since they are used and untested by me, i wouldn't want to sell them on ebay and find out they really didn't work.

i guess since i have them, i was looking fro something to use them with, and next time i see the inspector, I'll ask him for ideas.

thanks all,
Jesse

[Crash2510]

Just my personal opinion and from experience I would not waste my time with the gfi breakers because you will be running to the panel all the time to un trip the breakers.

Instead I would sell them (gfi breakers) individually and try to get my money back.

If you want to test them just throw them in the panel meter both sides of the breaker and hit the test button.