First Winter in Attached Garage Shop

[JoeyGee]

This will be my first winter in an attached (non-insulated) garage shop in NW Ohio. I have no idea how cold it gets in there, but I am concerned about keeping certain items in there--mainly glue and batteries. Should I store them in the house? I have thought about building an insulated box or cabinet for them. I know some have used old refridgerators, but I don't have the room. Should I be concerned?

[jhart]

Anything like paint and glue, anything with moisture in them, I would keep from freezing. I have 2 batteries for my cordless edger that I keep plugged in all year in the garage and have not had any problems with them. I also have had car/boat batteries left in the garage, but generally will put a trickle charger on the for a couple of days each month.

Normally a garage (uninsulated) will stay 5-10 degrees warmer than the outside, but NW Ohio, I think gets cold enough to freeze stuff in a garage, so I would take precautions. Good Luck.

[LCHIEN]

Like Joe says, the temp in the garage will be probably 5-10 degrees warmer than the outside (unless you leave the big door open at night).

So if the inside temperature will approach freezing (e.g. outside temps below 27F), all water-based products such as latex paints, glues, etc should be protected from freezing by taking them to the house or putting them in a cabinet with a 40 W light bulb or something like that - be careful of fire situations - some of that stuff is flammable, make sure the light bulb has air circulation/couple of inches of space around it even if the cabinet is fairly closed off)

As for batteries, they can probably go a little lower but they can be frozen too, so about the same point I'd protect the batteries also.
Keeping them under trickle charge with the slow chargers will warm them somewhat but it's not good to leave them that way permanently as the heat tends to shorten the life of the battery. Fast chargers will not keep them warm once they reach full charge.

[TheRic]

JoeyGee: I live about 100 miles south of you. My garage is unattached, and not insulated, unless you count fuzz board. It can get down right cold out in the garage. I keep a thermometer in the garage that I check on a regular basis, has a memory for lowest temp. I normally bring my paints, varnish, poly, etc in the house for the winter.

Right now I'm putting Poly on a workbench (basically a sheet of plywood) that will go in my office. I keep the poly out in the garage while doing the project. From me warming up the garage to work in, it keeps the garage warm enough for a day or several depending on the outside temp, and wind.

On those really cold stretches (below zero) I will bring the can(s) in with me not knowing when I will get back out there.

I have noticed that many of the paints, varnish, etc won't freeze at 32, but a little lower. Do NOT count on this, I'm just mentioning this so that it might not be ruined if the garage got down to 30-31 overnight.

Since your garage is attached, if you keep the paints, varnish, etc along the house wall it will help. Going in and out of the house will bring some warm air into the garage.

[gjat]

I just can't imagine a garage freezing...

I'm just glad that it's comfortable without the AC going in my garage.

[Kristofor]

As for batteries, they can probably go a little lower but they can be frozen too, so about the same point I'd protect the batteries also.
Keeping them under trickle charge with the slow chargers will warm them somewhat but it's not good to leave them that way permanently as the heat tends to shorten the life of the battery. Fast chargers will not keep them warm once they reach full charge.

I guess I believe you about freezing batteries in concept... But there are about a million batteries in automobiles up here that are regularly allowed to cool to -25 and still function quite well (well... function at least) at that temperature. I've never owned a battery that needed watering though, so perhaps those models were more picky?

My exterior garage door code panel (wireless), the 'clicker' in my truck and home weather gadgets (temp, precip, pressure, etc) run off of battery power all winter without much compaint either. The rechargeable batteries stay in the garage where it's cold, but never -25 (insulated, surrounded on 3 sides by heated space, etc. so maybe a few degrees below zero on a long cold snap), and again I haven't noticed any problems with this (though if I went from 1000 recharges down to 800 would I really notice? )

Ah, well, I guess that's not much help, but I'd be more worried about the fluids than the batteries.

Kristofor.

[WayneJ]

Just something that I learned the hard way. If you have a pressure washer, bring it inside, The water in the pump froze and cracked the pump housing. I also lost my Fluke multimeter. The LCD froze, when I went to use it the display only lit partialy, still have it only its junk. I would guess we are in the same temp zone. YMMV
Wayne

[TheRic]

Just something that I learned the hard way. If you have a pressure washer, bring it inside, The water in the pump froze and cracked the pump housing. I also lost my Fluke multimeter. The LCD froze, when I went to use it the display only lit partialy, still have it only its junk. I would guess we are in the same temp zone. YMMV
Wayne

Not sure about all power washers but mine, and a few others I know about. Tell you put windshield wiper fluid inside, over the winter / while not in use for long periods of time. It doesn't take much, I would guess less than 1/2 pint to a pint.

1. Unplug spark plug
2. In the inlet pour windshield wiper fluid in. Might need to use a funnel and part of a garden hose.
3. Pull crank until fluid comes out outlet. Only takes a couple of pulls. Don't pull too fast or it just shoots out the outlet, and over everything

I have done this several times and left it in the garage with no problems.

[sacherjj]

I'm looking at this issue in my garage, right now. I went with an oil filled electric radiator heater. It has a "no freeze" setting, which will turn on, just as the temperature approaches freezing. I have this under a cabinet with my "unfreezable" items. I liked the lower external heat of this type of heater, which reduces the risk of fire.

Another method I have heard is putting a light bulb in a cabinet or old fridge to keep the temperature up.

[LCHIEN]

I guess I believe you about freezing batteries in concept... But there are about a million batteries in automobiles up here that are regularly allowed to cool to -25 and still function quite well (well... function at least) at that temperature. I've never owned a battery that needed watering though, so perhaps those models were more picky?

My exterior garage door code panel (wireless), the 'clicker' in my truck and home weather gadgets (temp, precip, pressure, etc) run off of battery power all winter without much compaint either. The rechargeable batteries stay in the garage where it's cold, but never -25 (insulated, surrounded on 3 sides by heated space, etc. so maybe a few degrees below zero on a long cold snap), and again I haven't noticed any problems with this (though if I went from 1000 recharges down to 800 would I really notice? )

Ah, well, I guess that's not much help, but I'd be more worried about the fluids than the batteries.

Kristofor.

Automobile batteries are complete different chemistry than the rechargeables used in power tools.

Auto batteries are lead and sulfuric acid based and the water solutions (like acid) all have their freezing point lowered by the addition of the chemicals. Distilled water has the highest freezing point. THat's why batteries and windshield washer fluids (water plus alcohol) and radiator coolants (water plus ethylene glycol) don't freeze even at -25 degrees.
Gelled eletrolyte batteries are just water based sulfuric acid trapped in a gel matrix.

Primary (e.g. not rechargeable) Batteries are alkaline-manganese, silver-oxide, or sometimes lithium button cells. No water. I think these can withstand cold better than secondary (rehargeable) batteries.

Rechargeables using Lithium oxide, NiMH, and Nicad are not water-based. The problems with the chemicals in these are that they can crystalize which dramatically affects their performance and they may or may not recover. I'm not really sure of the exact temperatures (I'm sure they are somewhat different for each type) but I do recall that they would crystalize at some very cold but achievable temperatures.

[Stick]

Automotive batteries certainly DO freeze if they aren't kept charged. All of them will self-discharge slowly, and when they drop to a low enough state of charge (specific gravity), they'll freeze solid and break their case. makes one H of a mess! You doubt me? Try leaving a battery in a motorcycle/car/truck/tractor etc that sits unused throughout a winter in Canada'a north. BTDT, wore out the t-shirts full of acid holes from trying to clean up the mess in the spring!

[gwyneth]

Auto batteries are lead and sulfuric acid based and the water solutions (like acid) all have their freezing point lowered by the addition of the chemicals. Distilled water has the highest freezing point. THat's why batteries and windshield washer fluids (water plus alcohol) and radiator coolants (water plus ethylene glycol) don't freeze even at -25 degrees.

Maybe this should be emphasized for the chemically challenged. The freezing point of pure anti-freeze is HIGHER than water with anti-freeze added. Yes, water with anti-freeze added will withstand lower temperatures than the anti-freeze alone (and of course, water alone).

Somehow, this is easier for those of us north of the 45th parallel to believe than those further south.

[Kristofor]

Primary (e.g. not rechargeable) Batteries are alkaline-manganese, silver-oxide, or sometimes lithium button cells. No water. I think these can withstand cold better than secondary (rehargeable) batteries.

Rechargeables using Lithium oxide, NiMH, and Nicad are not water-based. The problems with the chemicals in these are that they can crystalize which dramatically affects their performance and they may or may not recover. I'm not really sure of the exact temperatures (I'm sure they are somewhat different for each type) but I do recall that they would crystalize at some very cold but achievable temperatures.

Well, I did some digging and found references to NiCd, NiMH, and Li-ion batteries all being good down to -40C (or F if ya like). That's means it's not a problem for garages in almost all of the continental US. As a bonus they tend to retain their charge for much longer (up to orders of magnitude)

Heat seems to be a much bigger problem, NiMH cycle life is substantially (40%) reduced with temperatures of 104F or higher compared to 32F. I would suspect that this impacts far more garages/sheds than concerns about cold below -40 :S .

The crystalization/dendrite formation problem I was able to find information about seems to be a particular issue with NiCd's but stems from disuse rather than low temperature.

Kristofor.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I bring all glue and finishing supplies into the attached garage which is insulated and does not get below freezing. Non-flamibles, ie glue, etc is brought into the house.

[Wood_workur]

and to add the the excellent advise aready given, I would reccoment getting a small heater with a fan, and using it on your workbench. It makes working in the cold so much more enjoyable.