really cheap setup bars?

[LCHIEN]

What do you think of this (keystock assortment) as a set of really cheap (60 for $9.99) setup bars?

All square cross-section, 3/16, 1/4 1/8. 3/16th, 5/16 and 1/2 inch in lengths from 3/4 to 1-1/4 inch long. I think they are quite accurate in cross section dimensions which is perfect for setup bars. Intended as keys for motor/pulley shafts.

A little shorter than the bars sold at Router Workshop or Woodcraft for around $15 for 5 - 2" bars, one of each size. But usable, I think.


"Size (quantity): 1/4'' x 1/4'' x 3/4'' (5), 1/8'' x 1/8'' x 1'' (4), 5/16'' x 5/16'' x 1-1/2'' (5), 3/8'' x 3/8'' x 1-1/2'' (5)., 3/16'' x 3/16'' x 3/4'' (5), 3/16'' x 3/16'' x 1–1/4'' (5), 1/4'' x 1/4'' x 1-1/2'' (5), 1/8'' x 1/8'' x 3/4'' (4), 5/16'' x 5/16'' x 1-1/4'' (5), 3/8'' x 3/8'' x 1-1/4'' (5), 1/2'' x 1/2'' x 1-1/2'' (2), 3/16'' x 3/16'' x 1'' (5), 1/4'' x 1/4'' x 1-1/4'' (5) "

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93199

[dlminehart]

Loring, I'm not sure exactly how this set compares in price to others, but I note a couple of drawbacks: not very many thicknesses, non-modular thicknesses, and carbon steel rather than brass (so more likely to ding one's carbide cutting edges). Lee Valley has an 8 piece set, based on 1/16" * 2 exp n, that will measure 1/16" to 4-11/16" in 1/16" increments. It's aluminum, and costs $40 (4 times as much). I've seen others at intermediate costs.

[bigfoot15]

Lee Valley has an 8 piece set, based on 1/16" * 2 exp n, that will measure 1/16" to 4-11/16" in 1/16" increments. It's aluminum, and costs $40 (4 times as much). I've seen others at intermediate costs.

I purchased the LV set with the 1" x 2" x 3" block as well as the thinner blocks.
I showed it to a machinist at work and he loved it. Said for the money it was as good as you'll find.
We bought one for our machine shop.

[LCHIEN]

Loring, I'm not sure exactly how this set compares in price to others, but I note a couple of drawbacks: not very many thicknesses, non-modular thicknesses, and carbon steel rather than brass (so more likely to ding one's carbide cutting edges). Lee Valley has an 8 piece set, based on 1/16" * 2 exp n, that will measure 1/16" to 4-11/16" in 1/16" increments. It's aluminum, and costs $40 (4 times as much). I've seen others at intermediate costs.

David,

Some people want a setup bar set that they can get any size in increments which is what you are referring to.

Some people like the setup bars like these made popular by the Router Workshop guys:

http://www.routerworkshop.com/Merchandise.html

They have 5 sizes, 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2
while you can't stack them up to any arbitrary value (or at least a multiple of the smallest increment) like the Lee Valley set, its very easy to offset a tool setup by those common fraction values which is how most people use it.

I'm talking about the HF key assortment which includes at least 6 or 7 values, as an $10 alternative to the $25 Router workshop set.

As for brass vs steel, I use carbide tools, carbide is much harder than steel and I don't go whacking my measurement devices agaisnt cutting edges real hard anyway. I don't see a real advantage to brass.

[Dwight]

Okay, I'll bite...what are these things used for?

In ever increasing ignorance,

Dwight

[LCHIEN]

Okay, I'll bite...what are these things used for?

In ever increasing ignorance,

Dwight

you mean originally as key stock or in my proposed use as setup bars?

[Stan]

Loring,
I have a set in the 'common sizes' as defined by your mention of the set from Router Workshop. Picked them up at a local hardware store in the 'key stock' bin. I think it's a great solution.

A couple bucks for a set of height gauges. Maybe one of these days I'll graduate to brass, but for now -- just a bit of careful handling and they work just fine.

[LCHIEN]

Loring,
I have a set in the 'common sizes' as defined by your mention of the set from Router Workshop. Picked them up at a local hardware store in the 'key stock' bin. I think it's a great solution.

A couple bucks for a set of height gauges. Maybe one of these days I'll graduate to brass, but for now -- just a bit of careful handling and they work just fine.

ACtually, I have been using for quite a while steel square bar stock obtained from the box stores for about a $1 per foot, average. Five bars, 1 ft. long about $5.

So instead of buying the HF assortment, you can actually buy key stock about 1+ inches long in the specialty hardware bins. I find lately that the
bins at HD and Lowes are in total disarray, probably the product of being open five years and picked over and never replenished. There are wrong parts in all the bins and open packages and loose parts all over.

The local Ace hardware is actually newer and maybe owned by an individual, one reason or the other the bins are better stocked and not so mixed up.

[Stan]

Can relate to that... I end up 'borrowing' a new tape quite often when I'm at the borg. What the label says, and what is in the bin is quite often two different things.

[Tequila]

Loring, I think you'll be disappointed using these as setup bars.

Keystock is not going to be finish milled like setup bars are, so it will probably have some rough surfaces, and 2 or 3 of them stached together won't necessarily be parallel, and the sizes won't add up perfectly.

Dwight,
These are used to lock gears, pulleys, etc to motor shafts or driveshafts. A small blind dado is cut in the shaft, and a matching dado is cut on the inside of the gear. When you put the gear on the shaft, the keystock is used to lock the two together.

[SwingKing]

Okay, I'll bite...what are these things used for?

In ever increasing ignorance,

Dwight

Dwight may have be asking the same questions I had in my head: "What are Setup Bars and how are they used in your workshop?"

From digging around in some product descriptions, it looks like setup bars are precisely machined blocks in some standard sizes which can be used to set things like height of a router bit or a table saw blade.

I'm assuming to use them, you'd pick one or more bars (say a 1/4" bar), set it next to your router bit on the table, and then use a straight edge to get the bit set to the same height as the bar(s).

Correct? (or is my ignorance showing again )

-- Ken

[LCHIEN]

Dwight may have be asking the same questions I had in my head: "What are Setup Bars and how are they used in your workshop?"

From digging around in some product descriptions, it looks like setup bars are precisely machined blocks in some standard sizes which can be used to set things like height of a router bit or a table saw blade.

I'm assuming to use them, you'd pick one or more bars (say a 1/4" bar), set it next to your router bit on the table, and then use a straight edge to get the bit set to the same height as the bar(s).

Correct? (or is my ignorance showing again )

-- Ken

Yes, they are bars of a known dimension, they are usually quite accurate to like .001" or so, plenty good for woodworking.

A few quick uses (I'm sure they're a lot more) from my experience.

1. use to offset a workpiece from a fence. examples
a. mortising a 3/4" slot with 3/8" chisels. Make one row 3/8" wide, then slide a 3/8" bar between the fence and the workpiece, moving it over exactly 3/8" mortise a second row and it will be exactly 3/4" wide
b. Drill a row of holes on a drill press, want a 2nd row 1/2 away, slide a 1/2 inch bar between the work piece and the fence.
c. want to rip one piece x" wide and another x+ 1/4". Rip the 1st piece.
Lay it along side the blade, move the rip fence and drop the 1/4" bar between the workpiece and the fence, slide the fence up snug and lock down.

2. checking the height of blades and router bits, slide the bar up to the blade or bit and rest a straightedge on top of the bar as you suggested.

3. Set the depth stop of my drill press. I want the hole deep enough not to break thru. I set a 1/8th inch bar under the bit, lower the quill until the bit hits the bar and set the depth stop. then remove the bar and drill the workpiece to the stop.

4. checking the depth of a rabbet made with #2 above. Just fit the bar in the rabbet and check for flush with the edges.

5. Offset a drill bit of mortising chisel from the fence. say like when you want the hole edge or mortise to be exactly 1/4 inch from the edge. Slide the bar between the fence and the bit and set the fence so they all touch.

6. I slide one between the bandsaw blade and the rip fence to set the bandsaw rip width for small items and notches. It should just slide with no play and no interference if set right.(if you need to take the kerf into account, I'll line it in front the blade so the edge is even with the outside of the blade teeth set.)

There's lots more, you have to use your imagination.

The key here is that its easier and more accurate to set the tools from a physical reference than to try and measure with a scale exactly 1/4" from the fence to the bit or whatever. And you can use several bars together, because the cumulative error is still small. Say 1/4+1/8 to get 5/8.

[tomscanio]

I purchased the HF set with setup blocks in mind. When I measured the thicknesses, they were all slightly undersized and not useable. I returned them.

Tom Scanio

[Dwight]

Hi,

I'm late getting back to this. Thank you all for your explanations. I'm continually inspired by the openess, generosity, and plain good nature of all the people who participate here. I came because of the TS; I'm staying because of the crowd.

Regards,

Dwight