To permit, or not to permit...

[Deadhead]

Still in the thinking stages of building a shop in the backyard. I called the county and found out that anything over 150sqft needs a building permit.

I didn't ask anything about inspections, but I assume they would require several inspections along the way (footings, construction, electrical, etc). I had really hoped to avoid getting inspectors involved. I've never built anything more than a deck, so I don't have any experience with doing things to code. Knowing the weight of what is going in, I'd be more likely to 'overbuild' than to skimp.

On the other hand, I would hate to build something without the proper paperwork and have it come back to bite me when it comes time to sell or with my next property assessment.

Anyone who has built a shop, or is planning to build one, did/will you go the permit & inspections route? Or did you do it on the sly knowing you'd overbuild it anyway?
If you built without the permit/inspections, did you run into any problems further down the road?
If you built with the permit/inspections, did this increase construction time and cost any? How much research did you have to do? Would you go that route next time?

Thanks for sharing your plans and experiences!

[lrogers]

When I start my shop I'll go the permit/inspection route. Like you said, it's a pain, but I don't want any thing to bite me in the butt either. I'm more concerned about my home owner's insurance than I am about the county.
When I made my visit to the permit office to check out the procedure, I was told that anything 400 sqft or above had a different set of codes it had to meet.
Personally, anything I build will be built right and built to last so I'm not worried about the inspections, just the BS that goes along with it.
Keep us informed as you progress. My building is at least 6 months away (the plans have been ordered and shipped), but I'd like benefit of your experience.

[LarryG]

Much will depend on local conditions. Here, the building department is really lax about residential construction: all they require to permit a new house is a floor plan, a front elevation, and a basic wall section. For additions, they don't require anything at all. Inspections are required, however.

As long as you follow good, basic construction practices as outlined in any number of "How To Build Your Own ..." books, the inspections will essentially be a formality. The one caveat here is that you need to find out if your local building department has adopted any modifications to the national codes that could, as Larry says, bite you in the butt. This is unlikely to be a concern for a small shop building, but you never know. The main thing you may have to worry about is positioning the building far enough from property lines so it won't be a hazard to buildings on adjoining property in the event of a fire.

[Tundra_Man]

Skip permits at your own risk! There is a potential for a liability suit if you ever sell the property and the shop has an electrical fire or some other accident.

Depending on your local laws, the penalties for not receiving a permit can be steep. There was a woman in my area about 10 years ago that built a small addition onto her house without a permit. When the county found out, they made her tear the structure down even though it met all construction codes. The reasoning was the county didn't want people building first and trying to seek permission later if they happened to get caught. I don't know what the laws are in your area, but I'd hate to go through all that work and then have to tear it down because I wanted to save a few bucks on a permit.

My neighbor keeps me honest. He works for the city planning department, so I make sure to get permits for everything!

[twistsol]

In the coming back to bite you category, If your shop is built without a permit and inspections and it later burns down, is wacked by a tornador or hurricane. or any other disaster, your insurance company can reject a claim. That includes a claim for the tools inside. In extreme cases, the city or county can require a structre be removed.

Also, I would think you would want it built to code anyway. I've had inspections catch mistakes I've made. You can get good advice from the inspectors. It's also the cheapest way to get a licensed electrician out to your house. Talk to the inspectors, tell them you're doing it yourself and ask them what they look for during an inspection. Most of the time they're willing to help out with tips and common mistakes unless they're really overworked.

The only bad experiences I've had is when the city sent out an intern to do the inspection. He literally went wround the basement with a ruler and marked every place on the sheetrock where the screws were more than 6 inches apart on the edge and a foot apart on the interior. On the other end of the spectrum I had an electrical inspector who walked into the house with an already signed sticker, put it on the breaker box and left.

[LJR]

Been there, done that, both ways. If it were my own house, my own shop, I would pull a permit and do it "properly". Yes, it's a charge for the permit and maybe a charge for the plan review. (speaking of plan review, I've gone in literally with a dimensioned sketch on a piece of notebook paper). Remember to plan for your inspections. The building inspector may need several days' notice to schedule your inspection. Some of the inspectors I've met over the years have been very nice, knowledgable people, and I'm glad I met them. Getting a permit may save you an issue with a neighbor, also.

[LarryG]

I just went back and reread the OP, as well as my first reply, and while I don't think I need to amend anything I wrote earlier, I will add that if the question is ...

1. Is the permit and inspection hassle sufficient that the shop size should be limited to 150 SF, my answer is NO. Don't settle for a shop smaller than you really want just to avoid having to deal with your local building department. The permit won't cost all that much; the inspections are not that big a deal.

--OR--

2. Is the permit and inspection hassle sufficient that somone ought to try building a shop larger than the legally-exempted 150 SF maximum and hope he gets away with it, my answer is still (and even more emphatically) NO. Don't try it. The risks aren't worth it even if you do get away with it, which you probably won't.

[Armini]

WHile they can be a pain in the ass, the inspection process isn't all bad. Having a certain discipline imposed on the building prcess can lead to better results in the long-term.

[mater]

In the past I have done it both ways. The building cost was the same whether I had a permit or not as I tried to build to code. The only difference was the cost of the permit. You can buy a code book for about $50.00 or if you run into something you are not sure about you can call the inspector and he will help you. At least my inspector would if I called him. I built a house about 20 years ago and had to call him on a few things to be sure I was building to code. Unless you are out in the boondocks the inspector may ride by your place going to inspect someone else and he will know you don't have a permit.

[BobSch]

Just had to throw this in.

[Hellrazor]

I'm not going to go into this real far... but a moron with outside guidance is still a moron

Ok thats just not right...

Woah.. A Larry the cable guy moment..


I have helped build things with permits and without. We didn't stray to the dark side and frame things with toothpicks just because there wasn't a permit. We didn't ignore the frost depth requirements either. I wont defend either side of the fence.

PA adopted the universal big brother code last year and you are required permits to pick your nose now. Even the local township supervisors think some of the requirements are crazy. If adopted without amendments you need to be licensed to do almost anything.

Deadhead, if you have any questions throw them here. As a rule, overbuild what you are doing. If you think a header needs to be a 2x6, use 2x8. Get as much requirement info out of your local codes office. You might be required to use a minimum thickness wall and roof sheathing. See if they have a full information packet defining things. Inspectors can be an interesting lot. The local one here for electrical is about 70 and if he recognizes you from another job and he knows you do your work, the less he checks.

[Deadhead]

Thanks for the great feedback, gang!

Looks like I'll be getting to know the inspectors.

The 2 big reasons are: 1) I want my homeowners to cover the building and it's contents and 2) I don't want an undocumented out building to be an liability issue when it comes time to sell.

As this won't be the last workshop I build, it's probably better to bite the bullet and do it by the book the first time.

Thanks again for lending your experience!

[Jim-Iowa]

If you go with the permit it can save a lot of hassle in many ways.

I remember a case back in the 60`s in my home town.
Department of transportation owned a piece of property along US HWY 6. They abandoned it and it went up for sale.
The man who owned the property ajacent wanted it.
His neighbor across the street had a bicycle shop and Schwinn franchise operation out of his garage.
The Schwinn guy got the bid and the property and the other guy was mad. Remember this was before permits. He built a 40ft X80ft building on the site and then discovered he was 6 ft across the property line on a ticked off neighbors property.

I think that 6ft of ground cost him as much as the building, to make piece. There was a lot of talk about his having to tear it down and move it.
By going the permit route you can be sure your legal.

[jAngiel]

I would do the permit. Around here you need a permit even for a fence ($20 unless you cross an easement then $50 more). If they happen to notice you building without a permit, $500 fine. All it takes is one nosey neighbor for them to "catch" you.

Not saying the laws are always the best way to do it but it is THE way to do it. It is always less stressful making the correct (and legal) choices up front.

If for no other reason, I would do it for less stress in my life.

[Knottscott]

Can you build in multiples of 150sqft? 150 this year...150 next...