Router Jig and a Safety snafu

[leehljp]

I made several router jigs that can be used in several ways as seen in this YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS3HyaXPn-Y&t=288s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS3HyaXPn-Y

Two links but of one YouTube.

I made two sizes, one for the Makita compact router and one for the DeWalt cordless compact router. These two routers have become my go to routers lately. Due to their overall newness, they have features that were not on routers 35 to 40 years ago. Even my more up to date Porter Cable router has slow start and quick stop as does the Makita and DeWalt.

I bought my first router in the late '60s from Sears and my next one from Sears also - in the early '70s. Both were 1/4 inch shaft routers. I also bought my first carbide blade bits in the late '60s and still have one of those. It was in the early '90s before I bought a 1/2" router - 2 in fact of the venerable (at that time) Porter Cable 690 family. Just straight forward router. Fast start and long wind down when cutting off.

Well, I have one of the 690's in my router table. It has been a couple of years since I used it much at all. The Dewalt's almost instant "stop" when it is cut off - almost ruined me and the result can be seen in the errors in the 3rd picture. After I turned the router off after making the slots, I waited and waited and when I thought it had stopped turning, I moved my hand a bit and the still turning bit grabbed the wood and gouged it. AND it did it, or rather I did it again on the next one.

I have become so used to the slow start and fast stop that the 5 to 6 seconds for the PC 690 to stop is like an eternity. It reminds me of high school baseball when a good pitchers would pitch 75-80mph several pitches and then throw a changeup. It took an eternity for that change up to make it to the plate. So did it take an eternity for the old Porter Cable 690s to stop when turned off. Consequently two of the slots got buggered up on the ends!

I LIKE SLOW START UP AND FAST STOP Routers!

OH in the pictures, there are two jigs that are stacked in the bottom two pictures - in case it looks a bit odd.

[LCHIEN]

nice jig.. What do you do if your router has a three hole mount pattern and not a four hole pattern?

Was that four tries to make two good jigs? That's about par for me. Even if there is no mistake, I can usually see an improvement somewhere.

Do you have one of the screw slot router bits for making FH or Pan/washer Head recessed screw slots? THis looks like just what they were made for.

[leehljp]

Neither the Makita or DeWalt has 3 hole plates, thank goodness! But the Makita base screw pattern is weird. The front two screws are about 1mm narrower than the back two.

I do not have a slotting router bit so I had to make them in two steps. I set up stops on one end on the router table fence, but should have set stops on both ends. The slotting bit as you posted would do well on a plunge base. I will give that some thought. I didn't even think about the slotted router bits when making those bases. If I were to order one, it will be for the flat bottom.

Four tries to make two good ones? No, all four are useable. I have two bases plus a plunge base for the DeWalt, and 3 bases plus plunge for the Makita. That YouTube video shows different configurations for that wood base, so I made the extra ones for different usages in case I wanted to go in that direction. When I make something like this, I tend to make extra ones while I have the setup in place,

[LCHIEN]

The following popular routers use the three hole pattern started by, I think the PC 690 series originally.



In theory you could make a jig like yours with asymmetrical slots to accommodate three hole routers... It would limit the diameter of the bit opening.
One slot (with two screws) 1.16 inches from the centerline and the other (with a single screw) 2.304 inches from the centerline.

[d_meister]

Working with plexi and Lexan a lot in the past, I've always had to be careful with counter sink fasteners as the cone shape would not stop during tightening and split the material, especially if it was near an edge.. It seems to me that a slotted countersink would simply spread the wood rails open and apart, where the truss head or washer would stop and clamp in a flat bottom hole.

[LCHIEN]

That can definitely be a problem. The longer the slot the bigger the problem.

[leehljp]

IF I did have a 3 hole router mount, I would probably make a round 1/4" thick Lexan base about 3/4' larger in diameter than the router casing, and then make 4 holes in the Lexan and use that on a slightly larger wood base/jig as in the OP picts.

d_meister, I agree with you. I have had problems in the past with a cone shapes. Just a tad too tight can split while a tad too loose will cause slippage. I use pocket hole screw on occasion and stopped using the cone shaped seating because of splitting when just a little too tight.

[LCHIEN]

Just out of curiosity today I pulled out the fixed base for my Bosch 1617evs router and I noted as I sort of remembered that there is a set of four holes in the base as well as the usual three hole mount common to Bosch, porter Cable, DeWalt, HItachi, Makita and Ridgid as I mentioned before.

I do know the 3-hole pattern is in those routers but I do not know if they have the four hole pattern. And Perplexed by the 21.5° rotation of that pattern.

I'm trying to figure out the hole threads... A 8-32 screw goes in about 4 threads and jams, and a M4-0.7mm goes in about 4 threads and jams.
32 TPI works out to .79mm pitch, So I'm not sure what the heck the threading is at this point.

[d_meister]

Could it be a 3.5mm fastener?

[LCHIEN]

According to the Bosch 1617 manual (all else fails, RTFM) the screw holes are all M4

Guess I'll try again tomorrow.

[leehljp]

I did buy another tool, a little expensive but one that generally I uses often: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OYQ56EG...fed_asin_title
This one has the small bolt cutters for metric - M2.6, M3 M3.5, M4, M5. I use the threaded bolt cutters for the American sizes OFTEN to cut small bolts down to the right size, but have never had a metric one. I found this one on Amazon and ordered it. I still have a trove of metric M3, M4, M6 bolts from a large assortment bought when I was in Japan. The DeWalt and Makita both use M 4 size screws/bolts in the base and specific lengths are a necessity.

I was a little disappointed in that while that is a "quality" crimping pliers with bolt cutter, it still required some touch up filing or grinding on the threads to go in without causing a bind. My 4-40, 8-32, 10-24 cutter does a great job in straightening the threads out upon removing the cut bolt. I "think" the problem with the M series is that those bolts are harder (stainless steel) than the USA threads.

[d_meister]

So the new Knipex don't shear cleanly?
I've carried two different similar-type electrical pliers to get coverage on the common sizes. One pair is a Snap-On and has the small Metric sizes but doesn't have the SAE 10-32 that I use a lot because I tap into fiberglass and thin metal, but all of my use was on stainless fasteners. I worked on a lot of yachts, so my pliers have some real mileage on the screw shears. I've noticed that I have to watch the axle adjustment on the Snap-On ones because of shear quality. I bought them over 50 years ago, though. I tighten them as much as possible and still leaves good operation. That and lubrication makes for a cleaner and easier shear, and easier screw starting. If there is too much clearance between the shears, finer threads will leave a hanging thread that needs a touch with a file.
I use real tools for crimping and stripping, but these types of pliers are the only kind that have screw shears and I use them for nothing else. It's surprising how few tradesmen know what those screw holes are for. Electricians usually know, though.
Maybe get in touch with Knipex and find out if there would be any benefit to exchanging for another pair.

[LCHIEN]

On the inch versions of that cutter that take #4, 6, 8, 10 bolts the key to a immediately usable shorter bolt was to thread the "keep" portion into the threaded hole side of the cutters.

[leehljp]

So the new Knipex don't shear cleanly?
I've carried two different similar-type electrical pliers to get coverage on the common sizes. One pair is a Snap-On and has the small Metric sizes but doesn't have the SAE 10-32 that I use a lot because I tap into fiberglass and thin metal, but all of my use was on stainless fasteners. I worked on a lot of yachts, so my pliers have some real mileage on the screw shears. I've noticed that I have to watch the axle adjustment on the Snap-On ones because of shear quality. I bought them over 50 years ago, though. I tighten them as much as possible and still leaves good operation. That and lubrication makes for a cleaner and easier shear, and easier screw starting. If there is too much clearance between the shears, finer threads will leave a hanging thread that needs a touch with a file.
I use real tools for crimping and stripping, but these types of pliers are the only kind that have screw shears and I use them for nothing else. It's surprising how few tradesmen know what those screw holes are for. Electricians usually know, though.
Maybe get in touch with Knipex and find out if there would be any benefit to exchanging for another pair.

They didn't for me, but I had stainless steel machine bolts in M4. I don't know if the SS are harder or not, and if that caused it, or the Knipex for the M sizes is not as good as the ones for the US sizes. I have used even cheap ones in the past for very good cutting and immediately the bolts screwed into nuts or threaded holes. This has been my experience over many years, so I am disappointed in the Knipex, but didn't want to knock it if it was the SS that was causing the problem. In the past, I haven't used SS bolts (even small) because normal bolts were strong enough.

I will buy a small pack of M4 non-stainless steel and see how it works with those.

I will also use some oil on it. the axle is tight - and I did not notice any shifting as I tightened the squeeze into the cut. I did intentionally look for it, but could have missed it with these bad eyes. I say that because I usually look for slop in the axles of scissors, pliers and what ever because I know that results in problems. If I can't tighten it immediately, I have experienced that enough that I leave loose axles alone and look for something better.

Getting in touch with Knipex - I'll do just that - AFTER I do what you said that you do . . . oil and make sure it is tight.
I hated to knock Knipex because they do have an extremely good reputation.

THANK YOU for your reply. I don't use the bolt cutters nearly as much as you do, but even then, I haven't run into anyone through the years that uses that feature. I have really enjoyed the how smooth it shears small machine screws to the right length. I still remember the first time I used that feature probably 40 - 50 years ago and never forgot it! Love that feature!

[LCHIEN]

Stainless steel is much harder than zinc plated steel.

[leehljp]

Thanks Loring, I will see if that is my problem. THANKS!

[leehljp]

So the new Knipex don't shear cleanly?
I've carried two different similar-type electrical pliers to get coverage on the common sizes. One pair is a Snap-On and has the small Metric sizes but doesn't have the SAE 10-32 that I use a lot because I tap into fiberglass and thin metal, but all of my use was on stainless fasteners. I worked on a lot of yachts, so my pliers have some real mileage on the screw shears. I've noticed that I have to watch the axle adjustment on the Snap-On ones because of shear quality. I bought them over 50 years ago, though. I tighten them as much as possible and still leaves good operation. That and lubrication makes for a cleaner and easier shear, and easier screw starting. If there is too much clearance between the shears, finer threads will leave a hanging thread that needs a touch with a file.
I use real tools for crimping and stripping, but these types of pliers are the only kind that have screw shears and I use them for nothing else. It's surprising how few tradesmen know what those screw holes are for. Electricians usually know, though.
Maybe get in touch with Knipex and find out if there would be any benefit to exchanging for another pair.

OK, I Did as you said. The Knipex axle was tight, so I oiled it, then pulled out a couple of the everyday variety M4 machine screws/bolts (I still call them bolts because I grew up calling screws and bolts totally different) - Anyway the non-stainless steel M4s sheared off easy - I tried two bolts and cut 1/8" off and then 1/4" off of two 1 1/2" M4. All 4 cuts were smooth and the resulting bolts screwed immediately into a nut without problem, or wobbling or trying to catch sideways etc. Just smooth as it should be.

So it was not the Knipex, but the hard stainless steel!

Thanks d_meister and Loring!