Plumbing leak under the sink. Particle board bottom shelf gone bad. Ugh!

[dbhost]

So... I had a leak in the sprayer on my faucet, which went unnoticed until my wife complained about a "smell" at the sink. Investigation shows the leak had gotten to the cabinet bottom shelf, and soaked in over a period of time, causing the particle board to do what particle board does..

The carcasses of my cabinets are oak and some sort of ply, I am guessing whatever the cheapest hardwood ply they could get away with as these are the 1984 builder grade cabinets.

The original shelf sits in a rabbet along the lower part of the cabinet, and is unsupported along the back of the cabinet, the cabinet back is open to the drywall.

I was thinking about cutting a replacement panel, actually a pair of panels as I can't fit a single piece in the space without either removing the entire cabinet, or damaging the face frame. So a pair of panels, one for each side, to replace the single nasty piece of particle board. They would be supported on 3 sides by a 1" x 1" hardwood cleat (white oak) that will be glued and pinned to the cabinet carcass. The first panel will have a 2" x 3/4" plywood cleat affixed to one side of it, that will overlap 1" such that when attached they will have 1" on either side of the seam, full length connection, and again, glued and pinned.

I am considering making a spreader for the rear of the cabinet, to support the back of this shelf as I never liked how the original flexed, and simply attach it to the carcass using pocket screws.

Once both panels are resting on the cleats, they will be glued and pinned in place as well, and finally, all seams are to be caulked with clear silicone tub and tile caulk to preclude any possibility of water penetration of the seams, and then the panel will receive a coat of bright white paint to help with visibility under the sink...

Now, having said that, are there any items I missed here or does this look like a sound idea to fix this problem?

[jking]

That sounds like a pretty solid plan. You might consider a spreader across the middle of the cabinet, similar to what you are planning for the back. It would minimize the risk of having the joint between the panels offset vertically.

[JimD]

I assume you fixed the leak.

Our condo at Clemson, for the daughters, had a long term leak at the outlet of one of the sinks. My wife insisted I replace the two small sinks with one larger one and I found the failed tail piece. I wondered why the bottom of the cabinet had bad finish. I guess it is plywood. Structurally it is fine.

[dbhost]

I assume you fixed the leak.

Our condo at Clemson, for the daughters, had a long term leak at the outlet of one of the sinks. My wife insisted I replace the two small sinks with one larger one and I found the failed tail piece. I wondered why the bottom of the cabinet had bad finish. I guess it is plywood. Structurally it is fine.

Lucky you!

Hadn't considered a mid point spreader. Not a bad idea...

[Stytooner]

Usually that would be a tear out job. You don't really know how it affected the floor and wall behind it. Whether it migrated down the cabinet line under the walls base plate. Concerns with the sub floor too.
This is a condition and location where mold can easily grow and get out of hand quickly.
Once you get the bottom of the cabinet demo'ed, I would also remove some of the drywall. At least enough to inspect the bottom wall plate and studs up a couple inches.
If you see any signs of mold, I would treat it. There are products that can help with that. That is as long as it is localized. If it has spread along the drywall, then you may have bigger problems. Mold can be a very big concern and I would not overlook inspecting for it.

[schloff]

you are spot on for the repair to the cabinet, but should listen to Lee on this as well. I had the exact problem in my kitchen a few years ago, patched up the cabinet only to end up with a squeaky floor all around the sink area, drives me crazy. Turns out that the water was damaging my subfloor as well. I'm in the beginning phase of a full tear out and kitchen replacement now. It's overdue, but this really put the project in gear. Unfortunately for us, the budget is never really ready for a job of this caliber. I'm trying to pick up pieces over time to minimize the financial hurt all at once. Plus, it allows me to find items on sale or clearance at my leisure.

Anyway, sorry for the long reply. Be sure to check the floor.

[dbhost]

I am slab on grade, so no worries what so ever about damage to a wooden sub floor...

Yeah, I didn't mention it, but i was fully intending on inspecting for mold, and even if none is found, doing a preventative treatment for it...

[Stytooner]

Slabs act differently for sure. Your bottom plate in that case is likely pressure treated lumber. Mold, like bugs, doesn't like to grow on it. Now if you knew if you had mold resistant drywall, you could probably count on very little damage caused by water. Most bathrooms and kitchens behind the lower cabinets use that type in new construction around here now. I am not sure if it is code or not, but certainly a wise choice.

[dbhost]

No clue about the mold resistant drywall. The house was built in 1984.

[Stytooner]

I don't think it was as widely used back then. I was framing houses about that time and I do remember some higher priced houses getting green board in the shower and tub areas, but not anywhere else.
I have heard of entire homes being done in blue board now. When major Hurricanes hit, sometimes power can be out a week or more. With our climate, that is begging for mold to develop inside of homes that are still closed up. Chances are if you have blueboard throughout and the house is still in one piece and wasn't flooded from storm surge, you would be okay and have quicker recovery.

[tfischer]

Similar thing happened at my mom's house a few years back... a very slow drip from an under-sink valve led to the rotting out of the entire cab in her basement bathroom. I ended up having to tear out and replace the whole cabinet. This was also on a slab (basement) so didn't have to worry about subfloor rot thankfully. It's amazing how much damage a small "drip, drip" can do... just saw this again at my BIL's house over Thanksgiving... they replaced a faucet the previous day and didn't get the hoses quite tight enough... resulting in it raining in the finished room below. Ugh. The leak was so small you could barely tell it was there, plus it was following the pipe through the floor so there was no evidence at all of it in the kitchen so they didn't notice it until a day later.

[dbhost]

I know both bathrooms are done with green board... When I re-did my laundry room I used green board, but no clue about this part of the kitchen...

It is likely that I am going to have to just rip, redo and replace. This is more $$ than I have for a while...

On the plus side, I have worked a couple of paying gigs, not much, but at least my playing is making money instead of costing me... However I have 2 broken cars, well technically 3, but one of them is in the body shop, the Saturn needs A/C work, sadly even without the A/C on the compressor cycles, and my compressor locks up, and stalls the engine in traffic :-(, and my truck has cam phasers gone bad...

I could really use to win the lottery just so I can fix my stuff and get heading the right way again!

[mpc]

For the Saturn: many cars use the a/c system to dehumidify the air for windshield defrost mode. So that might be why the compressor is kicking ON. Pop the hood and locate the compressor... one of the things bolted to the side of the engine and fed by the v-belts/serpentine belt. It won't be mounted to the front of the engine - that's typically the water pump. If you're not familiar with under-hood stuff, try these techniques to locate it:
* the a/c compressor will have a pair of rubber hoses (about an inch in diameter) ending in metal pieces going to/from it. The only other under-hood thing with hoses like that will be the physically much smaller power steering pump. On today's cars that's an electric motor so you won't see it bolted to the front of the engine to be fed by the main V-belts or serpentine belt. One of those hoses will go to the firewall, typically on the passenger side of the vehicle, to feed the under-dash stuff. So look for fat hoses at the firewall and follow those. There will be a pair of medium-fat hoses going to the firewall as well for the interior heater... one or both of those will go to the engine cylinder head or intake manifold area - ignore those.
* the a/c compressor pulley will have a funky look to it. Instead of being a simple round thing with a bolt in the center like most pulleys - which are typically a bowl-shape in cross section as well - it'll be "solid" because the magnetic clutch is inside it. Usually, instead of seeing a bowl shape, you'll see a triangular metal plate or a square plate across the face instead of seeing the bowl shape.

There will be a wire (probably just a single wire but sometimes two) coming from just behind the compressor magnetic clutch assembly... that wire is what engages the magnetic clutch to in turn engage the compressor. Follow it a few inches and it'll likely go to a connector. Undo that connector and the compressor is disabled until you can get the whole a/c system serviced.

mpc

[dbhost]

For the Saturn: many cars use the a/c system to dehumidify the air for windshield defrost mode. So that might be why the compressor is kicking ON. Pop the hood and locate the compressor... one of the things bolted to the side of the engine and fed by the v-belts/serpentine belt. It won't be mounted to the front of the engine - that's typically the water pump. If you're not familiar with under-hood stuff, try these techniques to locate it:
* the a/c compressor will have a pair of rubber hoses (about an inch in diameter) ending in metal pieces going to/from it. The only other under-hood thing with hoses like that will be the physically much smaller power steering pump. On today's cars that's an electric motor so you won't see it bolted to the front of the engine to be fed by the main V-belts or serpentine belt. One of those hoses will go to the firewall, typically on the passenger side of the vehicle, to feed the under-dash stuff. So look for fat hoses at the firewall and follow those. There will be a pair of medium-fat hoses going to the firewall as well for the interior heater... one or both of those will go to the engine cylinder head or intake manifold area - ignore those.
* the a/c compressor pulley will have a funky look to it. Instead of being a simple round thing with a bolt in the center like most pulleys - which are typically a bowl-shape in cross section as well - it'll be "solid" because the magnetic clutch is inside it. Usually, instead of seeing a bowl shape, you'll see a triangular metal plate or a square plate across the face instead of seeing the bowl shape.

There will be a wire (probably just a single wire but sometimes two) coming from just behind the compressor magnetic clutch assembly... that wire is what engages the magnetic clutch to in turn engage the compressor. Follow it a few inches and it'll likely go to a connector. Undo that connector and the compressor is disabled until you can get the whole a/c system serviced.

mpc

Yeah, I am quite aware, just tired of looking at it... Long story, and it's been a long time, but in what seems like a previous life, and it might as well be it was 20 years ago now, I was an IMACA Certified and ASE Certified Automotive Air Conditioning Technician... Scary how much I have forgotten over the years...