Filling in gaps

[RDavidP]

I made another oak box using rabbet joints just like the one I made my wife in the "Finished Projects" sub-section. After glue up, I noticed some gap in a couple of the joints. This is the second time I have tried making this specific box. First time I did not notice that the crosscuts were not 90 degrees until after cutting the rabbets on the router, so I just started over again. What is the best way to fill these gaps? I have alot of oak dust powder from sanding. Is there a way I can use this to fill the gaps? I plan to finish the box using Minwax Red Oak stain followed by a glossy polyurethane.

[cabinetman]

I have yet found a fill that provided an invisible fix. If you can clamp it up without distorting the shape, glue may hold. If you use the sawdust and glue, in most cases the glue seals the sawdust and won't stain/finish well, and will show. If you go that route, white glue works a bit better than yellow.

If you already have the finish on, you can try the filler "pencils", which are like crayons. They come in different colors and you just putty the area, and wipe it off with a dry rag. That type of repair putty also comes in small jars. Any of that type can be mixed for color matching.

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[RDavidP]

No finish on it yet. In fact I have not even cut the hinge mortises yet. During dry fitting the gap was not so visible, it is visible now after glue up. The gap is most likely due to how I cut the rabbet on the router. I think on this piece I did not quite hold it properly against the fence when cutting the rabbet as the others, so the cut is off a bit, and no clamping will fix it.

[sailor55330]

You can make a "filler" by using the dust and wood glue. Depending on how big the gap is, you can "rub" wood glue into the gap and then with a finger, rub the dust into the wood glue and sand smooth. My Dad used to affectionately call this "two inch wood putty". I've used this with smaller gaps in basic joints. I'm sure there are others who are more experienced.

[Daryl]

I usually just put some glue on the affected area and run the sander over it. Self repairing right there. If it is a project that matters, I may just start over or knock it apart and recut it a bit smaller.

[woodturner]

I have alot of oak dust powder from sanding. Is there a way I can use this to fill the gaps? I plan to finish the box using Minwax Red Oak stain followed by a glossy polyurethane.

Apply the stain first, then mix the dust with shellac and fill the gaps. Sand down the filler, then use thinned stain to touch up the filler (the sawdust in the filler will absorb more stain and will be darker if the stain is not diluted).

This will make an essentially invisible repair.

As others have suggested, glue will also work. However, white and yellow glue will not take stain, so you will have to paint the filler to get it to match or somehow pre-stain it to the right color. Hide glue will take stain, but as with the shellac, you will need to dilute the stain to get the color to match.

[cabinetman]

Any media including hide glue and shellac will seal wood fibers. It can be a hit or miss in diluting stain to add to match. You may do the fill and when dry using a touch up with a pigmented oil base stain and an artists brush, and tone in to get it close. Diluted stain doesn't color very well. If you have a dry rag tip the brush in the stain and dab it on the rag to get it to just a hint of stain and feather it on.

If the gap is that critical, you may force the parts apart carefully, and resizing the pieces for a better fit. You may be successful that way and save yourself from using more material.

That kind of fix is a prominent one in that it is a very regular repair (like a straight line). Changing the shape of the repair may make it less noticeable. IOW, cut somewhat into the good part so, it may look like grain running into the straight line. For the most part, repairs like that due to its regularity are difficult to mask.

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[RDavidP]

Here is the offending gap circled in red.


As seen here in this photo the rest of the joint fits fine, and on the bottom, which is now covered by the bottom panel, there is only the gap on the side with the rest of the joint good and solid.

[cabinetman]

Looks almost small enough to feed in some glue and clamp it closed.

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[RDavidP]

[ATTACH]17966[/ATTACH]

Looks almost small enough to feed in some glue and clamp it closed.

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To give a sense of scale, the end grain side you see is 1/4 inch thick. The box is built with 1/2 thick red oak.

[JR]

As others have written, you're not going to get a perfecet match, no matter what you do. Using the sawdust mixed with glue or shellac (I haven't tried the shellac idea - interesting!) will fill the gap, but be near impossible to match color. Having all that end grain showing will make the whole problem less of an issue. You're going to have a mis-match between the end grain and the long grain - the repair will probably look a lot like the end grain.

Having said all that, my suggestion is to NOT stain first (sorry woodturner ). Start with a sealer - shellac or the Minwax Pre-Stain compatible with your stain/top-coat materials, or whichever compatible sealer you like. Then apply the stain. This has the benefit of sealing all fibers, so that when the stain goes on it will look more uniform throughout the project.

I learned this technique from a pro re-finisher who gave a class to my local club. There were a million tips in that class, but the seal first technique was one he emphsasized quite emphatically.

HTH,
JR

[woodturner]

Having said all that, my suggestion is to NOT stain first (sorry woodturner ). Start with a sealer - shellac or the Minwax Pre-Stain compatible with your stain/top-coat materials, or whichever compatible sealer you like. Then apply the stain. This has the benefit of sealing all fibers, so that when the stain goes on it will look more uniform throughout the project.

That's a good approach, too. The main point is that the sawdust and shellac will take stain differently than bare wood. Stain will penetrate shellac to a degree, and sealing with thin shellac after filling but before staining will even out the color.

The reason I prefer shellac over glue as a binder is that shellac will take stain and glue will not. Another option is to tint the shellac with the stain, but it can be difficult to judge the dry color from looking at the wet mix.

[jking]

Is the inside of the joint tight? If not, cabinetman's suggestion of applying more glue & clamping it closed might work. If the inside is tight, clamping won't help.

You might consider trying to cut the joint line & glue in a thin piece of stock. It might be a trick to get a piece with grain matching (pattern & direction), although it might be thin enough to not show very much (?). I've seen it used before in fixing different joints, maybe you can make it work here.

[cabinetman]

Is the inside of the joint tight? If not, cabinetman's suggestion of applying more glue & clamping it closed might work. If the inside is tight, clamping won't help.

If it is tight, striking a cut line (to the rabbet) to allow for the movement can be done with an X-Acto knife and a thin straightedge.

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[Sawatzky]

The best putty I have ever used is Famowood. They have a variety of colors available to match a variety of woods. It is not a fix all, but it works great on small cracks and places where joints don't quite come together. It is sandable and stainable. I believe Ace carries it.