Cutting boards - Any species to stay away from?

[Martin]

Musical Instrument Makers Forum toxic woods list

http://www.mnwoodturners.com/New_Mem...ods_Chart.html

http://www.mimf.com/archives/toxic.htm from the Musical Instrument Makers Form.

then go into the MIMF forum and admire photos of the finished instruments

[Iansaws]

End-grain vs edge-grain

According to a posted comment I read on the Woodwhisperer.com website regarding his How-To video on making an end-grain cutting board (see previous post in this thread), as long as you are doing an "end-grain" cutting board, the type of wood doesn't matter too much. He uses maple and purple heart in his instructional podcast. When I went to my local hardwood lumber supplier and told them what I wanted to do, they steered me well away from the purple heart saying that it was way too soft for a cutting board and that I should only use hard maple. Everything I have read talks about using non-porous hardwoods for cutting boards, but as the Wood Whisperer explains, the end-grain is going to be porous on any wood and in fact that is what you want so that knives are not dammaged as much. The pores apparently cause the grain to swell and push out moisture and contaminates and with the "salad bowl" finish he recommends, bacteria are not supposed to be an issue. At the same time he says he only cuts vegetables on his boards and uses plastic boards for meat.

You have to read pretty far down in the post on his website to find this reference, if you are looking for it. One I read this it all made sense and I intend to make that board as I finish up about 10 projects ahead of it.

[mschrank]

When I went to my local hardwood lumber supplier and told them what I wanted to do, they steered me well away from the purple heart saying that it was way too soft for a cutting board and that I should only use hard maple.

You might want to reconsider any advice your "local hardwood supplier" gives out. Purpleheart ranks higher on the Janka Hardness scale than hard maple.

[steve-norrell]

The pores apparently cause the grain to swell and push out moisture and contaminates and with the "salad bowl" finish he recommends, bacteria are not supposed to be an issue. At the same time he says he only cuts vegetables on his boards and uses plastic boards for meat.

The website for General Finishes states that the salad bowl finish is not the preferred finish for cutting boards. They specifically recommend an oil and wax product mix.

http://www.generalfinishes.com/finis...0Bowl%20Finish

I would think that sealing the pores with urethane would make the wood safer and more resistant to damage. I wonder if a good strategy would be to use the salad bowl finish to fill the pores, then a "butcher block" finish to maintain the surface. Anyone want to comment on this?

Regards, Steve

[Iansaws]

The website for General Finishes states that the salad bowl finish is not the preferred finish for cutting boards. They specifically recommend an oil and wax product mix.

http://www.generalfinishes.com/finis...0Bowl%20Finish

I would think that sealing the pores with urethane would make the wood safer and more resistant to damage. I wonder if a good strategy would be to use the salad bowl finish to fill the pores, then a "butcher block" finish to maintain the surface. Anyone want to comment on this?

Regards, Steve

My humble appologies. I remembered the podcast incorrectly. As it turns out he doesn't recommend a salad bowl finish (I got that somewhere else I guess). Here is the quote from the Wood Whisperer message board regarding this subject.

"I have seen boards made of just about every wood you can imagine. Cherry, walnut, and even oak are common. If I could do the video over again, I would make a quick clarification. The open grain of woods like oak is something that really only presents itself in the face grain. All those little ridges and valleys can harbor bacteria. But on the end grain, well, its end grain. End grain is always porous no matter what species you use. And if you do the varnish sealing method I recommend, a wood like Oak should actually do rather well as a cutting board. But its going to be thirsty so be prepare to give it a good amount of varnish. And woods like cherry and walnut should be ok too. Although some folks avoid walnut because of allergy concerns. Not sure there is any solid proof that this should be a concern though."

Hope this clarifies things and I will attempt to be more careful in the future. I usually just ask questions here.

[tseavoy]

I have also used birch, but sometimes it will tend to warp.

Tom on Marrowstone

[3thumbs]

I have made several end grain cutting boards using Purple Heart, Hard Maple, Walnut, Cherry and Oak. I have finished all of them with olive oil, and never had a problem with them. Occasionally they need a dressing up with more olive oil. We never cut meat on them, however.
DM

[Tom Slick]

Poison Oak makes terrible cutting boards!

[phi1l]

I would think that sealing the pores with urethane would make the wood safer and more resistant to damage. I wonder if a good strategy would be to use the salad bowl finish to fill the pores, then a "butcher block" finish to maintain the surface. Anyone want to comment on this?

Regards, Steve

There are a couple of considerations here.

First if this is to be a purely decorative piece, use what ever finish you want.

IF it is to be actually used to prepare food, you want to avoid all "finishes" except white mineral oil. a mineral oil surface coating is the only thing that is non-toxic & also will not allow bacterial colonies to grow. The cutting board is generally sacrificed to preserve the edge on the cutting blade. As a result, on a well used cutting board, the surface is continually being removed. In this type of environment, even if toxicity were not a concern, using a varnish or urethane to create a nice finish would be a futile exercise since it would not be able to stand up to a knife anyway.

Sooo.. the best thing you can do for a cutting board is first let it soak up as much mineral oil as it can take, then every time you wash the board give it a light surface coat of mineral oil, as much to prevent bacterial growth, as protect the wood. .. That's what the butchers do

[steve-norrell]

My humble appologies. I remembered the podcast incorrectly. As it turns out he doesn't recommend a salad bowl finish (I got that somewhere else I guess).

Iansaws, no apologies needed.

Actually my concern was whether or not a polyurethane or varnish finish is appropriate for cutting boards, either alone or in combination with a mineral oil based product. There have been several useful comments, here and elsewhere, about using varnishes for sealing end-grain boards. Presumably you would have to allow ample time for the varnish product to completely setup deep in the pores before it was completely safe.

The Howard Products Butcher Block Conditioner, purchased from Rockler, contains beeswax, carnauba wax and Vitamin E, along with the mineral oil. They claim that the waxes confer water-resistant and antibacterial properties on the wood. I don't know what the Vitamin E is supposed to do. See: http://www.howardproducts.com/butcher_block.htm

Interestingly, the Howard blurb recommends the butcher block conditioner for salad bowls but the General Finishes site recommends something other than their salad bowl finish for cutting boards.

Finally, as to whether or not you should cut meat on the wooden boards, we need to remember that at least two of the recent major food poisoning incidents have involved vegetable products. Further, even way back, many long years ago, when I was a graduate student, there were incidents involving contamination of lettuce from irrigation waters contaminated with sewage (just like the more recent incident).

As usual, this forum has generated some very interesting and useful comments and so, thanks to all.

Regards, Steve

[Alex Franke]

I've made several end-grain boards (like this one). So far I've always used a combination of maple, cherry, and walnut. I only use mineral oil, and I usually include a bottle of it with "maintenance instructions" with cutting boards I make as gifts.

The one pictured in the link above has been in use for three years (almost daily) and it still looks great.

[pelligrini]

You might want to reconsider any advice your "local hardwood supplier" gives out. Purpleheart ranks higher on the Janka Hardness scale than hard maple.

Yea, purpleheart is a fairly hard wood. I'd reconsider their advice too.

One thing about the Janka test is that it is usually done perpendicular to the grain not on end grain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test "The Janka hardness test measures the hardness of wood. It involves measuring the force required to embed an 11.28 mm (0.444 in) steel ball into wood to half its diameter. This method was chosen so that the result would leave an indention 100 mm˛ (0.16 sq in) in size."

I wonder if the wood fibers in an endgrain cutting board act like the bristle fibers in a dart board? Kind of self healing?

[Alex Franke]

I wonder if the wood fibers in an endgrain cutting board act like the bristle fibers in a dart board? Kind of self healing?

I'm pretty sure that's the idea. Cutting across the grain on a long-gran board actually severs the wood fibers. This doesn't happen so much on an end-grain board.

[mschrank]

Discussions about cutting boards always open up this can of worms. What wood is safe? What finish is safe? Allow me to rant a bit....

I think too big a deal is made of these points. Sure, you don't want to use a wood someone might be highly allergic to on the off chance that a tiny little bit of that wood will get into the food you are preparing, and that that TINY little bit of wood will be enough to cause a reaction.

And no, you don't want to use a film finish like polyurethane that will flake off. This is really more a maintenance concern than a health one...it's been stated here and elsewhere that practically any finish is safe once it's cures. The Wood Whisperer does indeed recommend Salad Bowl finish cut with mineral spirits. I did this on my end-grain board and it has held up beautifully. The finish penetrates all the way through to the other side, completely sealing the pores. If I had to re-apply mineral oil after each washing, I wouldn't. I've used my board daily for a couple years now...it still makes waster bead up when I wash it, and I honestly can't see any knife marks on it to speak of

As far as cutting meat on wood: I do and always have. Plenty of studies have shown it is as safe (if not safer) than using plastic cutting boards.

Some folks just need to relax a bit...you're not chipping the board up and serving it to guests. Anything that ends up in the food is going to be very, very minute. Nothing like what you are likely breathing in each time you step outside.

I'm done...thanks for your time.

[tseavoy]

Thanks Mike. I agree.

Tom