Outdoor Shutters

[Snap Marc]

I have about 22 shutters on my house. We just bought it in July and have notice all of the shutters are rotting fast. Recent winds have caused two to fall off. Others are close to falling.

So I took one to my shop, reverse engineered it (sounds fancy) and have determined these are easy to build. I bought the right panel bits from MLCS and I just finished the first one (the prototype). Simple.

Now I'm ready to start cranking them out. I'm using basic pine from HD and Lowes. Each shutter has about $10 of wood. I, of course will use Titebond exterior glue, but my question involves the best way to make these things last.

I plan on priming them and painting them. But how necessary is it to prime them before I assemble? It seems if I don't, the grooves, etc will rot fast as they're not protected.

It's a basic raised panel design. Right now, the proto fits perfectly together, but if I prime and paint first, I'd have to compensate for the paint and primer. Or, maybe I should just run a bead of caulk or silicone or something.

I'd much prefer to assemble the raw wood shutters and them seal, prime and paint afterwards. Any ideas? Also, must the panel float without glue? Or can I glue it? I've never done an exterior project like this.

Here is a picture of the prototype...

[drumpriest]

My first suggestion would be not to use pine. Cedar or Cyprus or Red wood would be much better choices, as they are rot resistant.

You should not glue the panels into a frame and panel construction, regardless of interior or exterior, but it'll be even worse outside due to the changes in humidity. The panels will expand quite a lot, and the reasoning behind frame and panel is to allow for this movement. If you glue the panel in, they'll rip the frames apart when they swell and contract. The panels should not fit tight into your dados, but instead should float with room for expansion.

[docrowan]

Since you are going to paint them, why not pressure treated pine? That way you don't have to worry about rot but avoid the expense of cedar.

[Snap Marc]

My first suggestion would be not to use pine. Cedar or Cyprus or Red wood would be much better choices, as they are rot resistant.

You should not glue the panels into a frame and panel construction, regardless of interior or exterior, but it'll be even worse outside due to the changes in humidity. The panels will expand quite a lot, and the reasoning behind frame and panel is to allow for this movement. If you glue the panel in, they'll rip the frames apart when they swell and contract. The panels should not fit tight into your dados, but instead should float with room for expansion.

Price is the main factor. I'd love to use one of those woods, but pine is just so cheap!

[Snap Marc]

Since you are going to paint them, why not pressure treated pine? That way you don't have to worry about rot but avoid the expense of cedar.

That may be a better choice. Thanks. What about machining all that chemical? Seems toxic. I have 44 panels to shape on the touter table. Lots of dust.

What do you think the price difference is? I just got 1x4x96 pine at Lowe's for $2.50 each. Two of those makes for all rails and stiles for each shutter.

What's the difference in PT pine? Would I need primer? I wonder how much cedar is? Of those woods drumpriest mentioned, which is cheapest? Would I need to prime those?

[LCHIEN]

Price is the main factor. I'd love to use one of those woods, but pine is just so cheap!

if cedar lasts four-five times as long, is it still cheaper to use pine?

Panels are normally not glued, the float allows for temperature and humidity size changes which would otherwise destroy the assembly.

[cabinetman]

If you are going to use pine, fabricate the shutters, then caulk with Polyseamseal. Silicone caulk is difficult to clean up, and doesn't paint well. Then prime and paint. You can pin the panel in the center top and bottom.
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[Snap Marc]

I hear you, I hear you. So, with cedar, do I need primer? Or can I go right to paint? What about pressure treated pine? Primer needed?

[gsmittle]

I hear you, I hear you. So, with cedar, do I need primer? Or can I go right to paint? What about pressure treated pine? Primer needed?

I'm gonna jump in here and suggest priming, no matter what lumber you use. Now the disclaimers: I've never done this sort of project, so I'm talking through my hat. Also, remember that free advice from me is worth what you pay for it…

Unless you need to know something about Roman theatre…

g.

[docrowan]

Modern PT pine does not use an arsenate (read arsenic), the chemical that caused the concern in the old copper chromium arsenate (CCA). The new stuff is ACQ, Ammonium Copper Quarternary. According to wikipedia some ammonium quarternarys, a group of related chemicals, are used as disinfectants in food manufacturing. The copper is ground into an extremely fine powder so that it will be absorbed into the wood as a fungicide. The AQ and copper together kills the termites. I researched this very heavily because I decided to use the new PT to build raised bed gardens and I did not want to expose my family to any hazards. CCA was much safer than some of the old preservatives used up until the 70's and the ACQ is much safer still. I have no concerns about using the new PT. I won't use the sawdust in a compost pile simply because I don't want to kill off beneficial insects (worms) and fungi.

You'll want to use a primer not to prevent rot but to help the finish paint stick to the bare wood. Primer is designed to provide a better bond between wood and regular paint. It's not as good at preventing moisture penetration, the regular paint is designed to do this. The moisture penetration is what causes the rot.

[Gator95]

I'd use white oak for the shutters. You're going to be putting in enough hours making these that using a reasonably rot-resistant material to start with would be a good idea. If cedar is cheaper, then that would be fine too.

Prime and paint the panels before assembly, otherwise you'll have some lines as the panels expand and contract.

[Snap Marc]

I didn't realize white oak was rot resistant.

I'll probably go with PT pine and prime and paint them. I'm of course concerned about price, so this seems to be the most economical way. Maybe cedar, but I have to price it out.

So with primer and paint, if I do this before assembly, will the glue hold? Or would I glue first and then prime and paint, and then insert panels?

I'd love to be able to simply assemble, then paint, but you're right, the lines will show where the paint isn't.

So question is, can I prime and paint all of the pieces, the glue them? Seems like that wouldn't work.

[cabinetman]

It's going to sound like I'm repeating myself, but here's what I would do. Assemble the whole shutter putting glue only in the joints for the corners. Leave the panel loose but you can pin nail the panel at the top middle and bottom middle. Then caulk with Polyseamseal. Then prime and paint the whole shutter. This is the method I use for cabinet doors and shutters that are painted or stained or naturally finished.

You may or may not get any movement. If you do, just touch up the paint. I would not put any finish on any parts before assembly.
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[Salty]

Here's something else to consider.
What would be the cost per panel difference using the plastic/wood composite that is made for decks?
I'm considering this stuff for an outdoor project.