MDO shop cabinets?

[GalaxyDrifter]

Hello forum members.

I am in the process of slowly rebuilding my woodworking shop after it has been mothballed for 9 years.

After much research and forum lurking to try and get up to speed on current WW knowledge and trends I came to the conclusion that MDO plywood is
supposed to be the ultimate for shop cabinets, storage shelves, jigs etc, etc.

The overall plan is for some uber wall cabinets that could hold any tool without sagging or self destructing.

Think hand planes, hammers, chisel sets, nuts/bolts/screws, whatever.....

So after drawing up and printing out a cut list I headed for the local commercial plywood supplier to pick up 3 sheets of 3/4" and 2 of 1/2" all MDO.

This was my first time putting a blade to MDO.
After all I read about it and the medium fortune I paid for it, expectations were very high.

Was lucky enough to get one full sunny but cool stable weather day here
yesterday so I set up some horses in the driveway then rough ripped & crossed everything possible to within 1/2" of net.

After that it was a one man job and went fairly easy on the table saw.

So here are my observations after buzzing up five sheets of MDO ply:::

I rough ripped a 5" by 96" edge strip on the first 3/4" panel.
The thought was I would use that factory cut edge strip for a saw guide on the other panels instead of grunting a full sheet back and forth as a guide.

After air dusting off the panel I grabbed the 5" strip to prep the next cut.
Something didn’t look right.

I eyeballed the edge of the strip and it was bowed big time.
Then I set it up against the other factory edge and could see at least a 1/4" bow in 96".

This was within minutes of cutting it off the panel that internal stress pulled it that much!

I roughed out the rest of the cuts using a full panel edge or an old four foot level as my saw guide.

Inside on the layout table I could see some potato chipping on the larger pieces. (My understanding was that this material would be stable and dead flat?).

As I ran rips on the table saw I could see the kerf closing up and or spreading about 3 feet behind the riving knife (1/8" kerf)!

As for the quality of the panels I did find some small patches of loose overlay
paper along the edge of two panels.

It was flat but appeared to have dried out or perhaps had no glue in these areas. All of it was in off cut areas so I finger tapped around all over the panels and could not find more loose spots.

The paper is smooth on both sides and looks good.

My plan is to route 1/4" deep dado's into the carcass sides for fixed shelves to add overall strength.

I grabbed a fresh gallon of original Titebond wood glue down at the local big box last night.

Now I am second guessing using that glue for dado's with the MDO face?
Of course it will stick to the open end grain of the sheet but what about the
paper?

Is there a specific glue formulated for MDO?

And with the overall weight of the 3/4" carcass should I only consider screws
with the glue or do you guys think 2" 16 gauge air nails plus glue and clamps will do the job up best?

Now I have lots of nice cuts stacked in my garage waiting for the hammer.

Here are the specs of the MDO.
On the panel edge:
OLYMPIC MDO 2S G1 EXT APA 11 PS 1-95

And separately another stamp reads:
OLYMPIC TWO STEP.

I was told by the salesman it was full MDO on both sides.

With a magnifier it appears to be about 1/64" or thinner paper on both faces
and five nice plies of Doug fir in between.

The MDO is approximately paper grocery bag colored.

Any input from this community would be respectfully appreciated.
Glue? Nails? Quality of material as expected? Comments?

And if anyone wants to say I am crazy for spending that much on plywood I
already know about it.

Cause that’s all my wife has been talking about for a week ……nuff said.

Thanks guys.

[jackellis]

I can't help with MDO, but the stuff I plan to use is Arauco plywood. I can get it at Lowes out here. It's not the prettiest stuff but it does have nice, even plies, the faces look fine for shop cabinets, it machines pretty well, and it's reasonably priced.

One thing that does occure to me is that you may want to use some kind of mechanical fastener if you're glueing something to a 1/64 inch paper face. If you're glueing into dados, seems like you'd be fine.

[poolhound]

MDO definatley has benefits in some applications e.g. for painting but not sure why use it specifically for shop cabinets. As with most materials it is a tradeoff between price and functionality.

I have to ask as I didnt see it in your post what did you pay for your MDO?

[LCHIEN]

from what i read on the 'net MDO is used for signage.
The chief characteristics are very smooth surface almost paperlike in smoothness but actually waterproof resin coated. Needs to be further painted and sealed but makes a good base for the signs.

Don't see much that says it's good for furniture and cabinets. Nothing about flatness and stability.

[Tom Miller]

I think Norm makes all his shop cabinets out of it, doesn't he? Otherwise, like Loring says, I always hear it's great for outdoor signage. (I think there's some forum or internet amplification of that.)

BTW, I never trust factory edges implicitly. But you can always check them with a 6' level. I do have melamine shelves that I purchased specifically for their edges to use as guides, though.

If MDO is the same price as BB, I'd probably (and do) go with BB for shop cabinetry.

Regards,
Tom

[Black wallnut]

Norm is about the only guy I've heard or read about that uses MDO ply for shop cabinets. I have to wonder after picing the stuff myself if he was doing so simply because the plywood manufacturer was a show sponser. This is pure speculation on my part and could be very far from the truth. There is no way I'd use MDO for anything other than an outdoor project that needed to be painted and even then likely not.

As far as the stuff you payed dearly for that proved not to be demensionally stable I'd be sure to complain to the supplier. FWIW I will no longer be buying plywood from my local lumber yard as the last two times I've got stuff that was warped. In neither case was the warpage such that I am not able to use the stock but I simply refuse to toss good money at folks that don't offer good stuff for the premium prices they charge. My somewhat local BORG has a better storage system for their plywood it seems as I've not found any warped sheets there.

[ironhat]

I'm not much help on anything around here let alone MDO, GD, but,
WELCOME !

[GalaxyDrifter]

Thanks for the feedback,

Thanks for the input everyone.

Hello Jackellis,
I am not familiar with Arauco plywood?
Yes I will be going with aprox 1/4" deep dados and
currently looking for the best type of screw to use.
Thanks.

Hello Poolhound (Jon),
I don’t know, I guess its just like the hot red sports car with the blond in it,,,, when you see it you think you need one.

It was all the talk of stability and a smooth face with no splintering and no sanding and no painting for interior applications if you don’t want to.

Mostly I just got tired of paying $40.00 to $50.00 plus bucks for birch or maple face 3/4" down at Home D. and then it wont lean against the wall by itself cause its so potato chipped.

Of course trying to build any cabinet with bowed or wavy plywood is not a fun project.

My father worked at North Pacific Plywood for over 42 years, and I do remember 3/4" and even 1/2" Doug fir plywood that leaned up to a wall almost like a sheet of glass it was so stable and solid.

I will work through the whole project before determining if it was worth the expense or if an other panel type would have been more cost effective and functional as you suggested.

As far as cost: I picked this up here locally at PlyTac, a commercial supplier. At the time this MDO was running $62.00 sheet on the 3/4" and $48.00 for the 1/2".

Perhaps I should have went with Marine ply and painted it or stained it? Actually I am not doing this work based on any years of experience, Most of the stuff I do is all small scale boxes, turnings, and clocks.

I worked for 17 years in the floor covering trade doing carpet, vinyl, ceramic, hardwood, counter tops and some house building and remodeling, but I really have not done a lot of cabinet work.
Thanks.

Hello Lchien,
Ya that’s most of what I found also.
Plus all that about how much "Norm A." recommends it for shop fixtures, shop cabinets, etc.

I agree.
I don’t think it would be suited for standard cabinet work or furniture. The main point seems to be toughness and durability requirements of the commercial or industrial community for int. or ext. purposes.
Thanks.

Hello Tom Miller,
Yaa good ole Norm,,, I have a suspicion that the cost of materials in his shop are somehow subsidized by the program sponsors. Almost makes me wish I was famous as well )

I agree on the quality of panel factory edges.
I usually grab my 8ft straight edge or a long level for a quick check.

I mentioned the MDO cost above.
Does BB mean Baltic Birch?
Thanks.

Hello Black Wallnut,
You may be right on the appropriate usage of this material, so I will see how this one goes then try something else next time.

Ya I don’t know what the deal is with warped sheet goods.
It almost seems like they expect everything you purchase is going to be nailed up on the side of a house and you shouldn’t care if its warped.

Of course like any other tradesman or serious hobbyist I will need to locate the commercial suppliers who will sell retail in my area to get the really good stuff, and learn what’s best and what’s over priced firewood.

I see you are over in Ellensburg,,,
The one place I will always remember over near there is the Manastash Ridge area Elk hunting with my dad back around 1968 or 1969 beautiful area but windy (I stepped on one of those little round cactus plants at three in the morning).

Thanks.
GalaxyDrifter: aka Dave.

[gimpy]

Need which one, Dave, the car or the blond? I know which one I want (err, need), but don't tell the wife :>).

BTW, Welcome aboard.

[crokett]

Dave,

I know a sign maker and get old signs made of 1/2" MDO from him for free. That reminds me I need to make a visit and replenish my stash. Anyhoo, it machines well, glues well and chips out a LOT less than regular ply. It also takes paint very well. If you can afford it, making shop cabinets out of it will work just fine but it does cost more than regular ply of equivalent dimensions.

[SARGE..g-47]

I can't help with MDO, but the stuff I plan to use is Arauco plywood. I can get it at Lowes out here. It's not the prettiest stuff but it does have nice, even plies, the faces look fine for shop cabinets, it machines pretty well, and it's reasonably priced.

One thing that does occure to me is that you may want to use some kind of mechanical fastener if you're glueing something to a 1/64 inch paper face. If you're glueing into dados, seems like you'd be fine.

Normally I won't touch HD or Lowe's plywood as I get it from my hard-wood supplier but... HD has the Arauco (made in Ecudor I do believe) and it is pretty nice stuff... I bought a sheet of the Sandi-ply to do TS inserts with and it works well when machining. The layers are pretty crisply done and it seems to be frimly glued.

It's good enough part of the sheet was just used to do cabinet bottoms for a Stickley QSWO computer desk-hutch. I tested several types of ply and the Sandi-ply proved to be the best match-up with stain for the main body QSWO. You will only see it breifly when the CPU door is opened. A light sanding was all that was needed before stain and finish.

So.. for shop cabinets... this stuff is pretty cheap as long as you purchase full sheets to break down and... it would paint well I believe. Shop cabinets are shop cabinets but the grade is good enough to use as dust backs on chests and drawer bottoms IMO. Not bad for Home Depot.. especially after the crap they have been pushing for several years in the ply department.

[Mr__Bill]

The local mill manufactured MDO, I asked and was told that if it or any plywood warps bows twists or skews after cutting.....

1. pressed too hard when made
2. radical change in humidity from point of manufacture and or not properly stored while adjusting to local humidity.

Delamination is usually caused by improper glue coverage or being picked up improperly at the mill following manufacturing.

If you are on friendly terms with the mill you may want to take the skewed piece to show them. It may be indicative of a manufacturing problem that they may want to know about.

Plywood needs to stabilize to local environment, while doing so it must be stored flat and properly supported and in a banded unit several units high.

I asked what it was used for and was told that besides signs it is used by builders for when flat exposed painted surfaces are needed. Under overhangs, soffets, columns and the like. Apparently they sell a whole lot to apartment builders in Calf.

That said, looking forward to how your work turns out.

Bill, on the Sunny Oregon Coast.
btw, sounds like your on the air base or perhaps the artillery range.