Southern Yellow Pine

[poolhound]

I have some pine that I salvaged from some old furniture over a year ago and wondered if it may be SYP. Is there an easy way to tell? whatever it is its well aged and pretty hard (for pine) and was considering it for some projects.

It does have some knots and most of the SYP I have seen seems to be clear. I will try and take some pics later today.

[Daryl]

Best I can say is it will have a courser look than other pine, plus the yellowish cast and the rings will be kind of a reddish brown. You can probably google an image of it.

[poolhound]

Here are some pics.

As I am in the process of re-thinking my work and assembly surfaces I am considering building a new bench in addition to an assembly table.

I was looking through my stock to see if I had anything that might work. I have approx 30 bd ft of this. If it is SYP it might be a candidate although a lot of it is quite knotty as you can see.

I also have some Ash, Alder & Birch. Not sure if I have quite enough of any one to make a whole bench.

Anyway do we think this is SYP?

[cabinetman]

It looks like it is a specie of SYP, as there are many species of the "Pines". Your picture doesn't represent the common brownish, amber tones you might see from some species of SYP, but that doesn't preclude that selection from being SYP. If it's hard and heavy, most likely.
.

[poolhound]

It looks like it is a specie of SYP, as there are many species of the "Pines". Your picture doesn't represent the common brownish, amber tones you might see from some species of SYP, but that doesn't preclude that selection from being SYP. If it's hard and heavy, most likely.
.

Thanks CMan, The pics dont seem to show the color properly they really are more yellowish, these pics make them look rather brown.

[LarryG]

It does have some knots and most of the SYP I have seen seems to be clear.

That partly depends on what it was milled for originally. The one-by material I see around here usually is pretty clear (but still flat sawn, which means it cups horribly). The two-by material (generally 2x8s and larger; the 2x4s and 2x6s sold locally are usually some unspecified variety of "whitewood") will often look exactly like what you picture.

SYP is extremely resinous, to the point you need to wipe it down with acetone just before glue-up in order to ensure a good bond. You might try drilling some test holes with a Forstner bit ... SYP shavings will often clump together and will feel oily as you rub them between your fingers.

EDIT: These are the legs and stretchers for the Roubo bench I'm currently building, all out of SYP. Hard to believe these started out as rough-as-a-cob floor joist material ...

[SARGE..g-47]

If indeed the streaks of color are yellowish.. it is likely SYP. And it can have knots. It can and will get extremely hard when it case hardens as I have seen some building timbers from old homes that basically required a pilot hole to sink a nail in. I have used SYP on the last 5 work-bench tops with great success but I use 2 x 12 or 2 x 10 ripping off the outside and throwing away the pith in the center. By doing that it leaves quarter sawn stock with vertical ring lines that look like /////. Most 2 x 8-10-12 will have the pith near center. Then face glueing the 3" wide pieces forming a 3" thick work-top.

Here's a picture of how much had to be taken off a 14 month old top. Not much as the highest point was around .030. Took around 10 minutes with a #7 jointer.. light sand with ROS and added another coat of Danish oil which gives it even a more amber or yellowish tint. BTW.. the three center pieces are Eastern white pine I had left from several years ago to keep the cost down. The cost to build on this top was around $22.

[cabinetman]

That partly depends on what it was milled for originally. The one-by material I see around here usually is pretty clear (but still flat sawn, which means it cups horribly). The two-by material (generally 2x8s and larger; the 2x4s and 2x6s sold locally are usually some unspecified variety of "whitewood") will often look exactly like what you picture.

SYP is extremely resinous, to the point you need to wipe it down with acetone just before glue-up in order to ensure a good bond. You might try drilling some test holes with a Forstner bit ... SYP shavings will often clump together and will feel oily as you rub them between your fingers.

EDIT: These are the legs and stretchers for the Roubo bench I'm currently building, all out of SYP. Hard to believe these started out as rough-as-a-cob floor joist material ...

Some nice clean machine work there. Most SYP lumber will be marked, and can usually be differentiated from "whitewoods". For old lumber, the hardness and weight usually give it away.

Many of the hard pines look very similar. SYP (Longleaf) can look like Florida Pine, or also called "Dade County Pine" (Slash Pine).

SYP is resinous, and if pressure treated even more so. The resinous, oily feel will be much more obvious than plain untreated SYP. Sometimes it's hard to tell if the lumber has been PT'd, as in the picture below is a PT piece I have that is just blond as ever, no hint of green. Of course, not all pressure treated wood will appear green.

Glue ups work best when the lumber is dry. An acetone wipe works well, and a two part epoxy if used outside. Just for grins, I tried TB III to see if there was a possibility of joint failure. I can't say yet, as the exposure hasn't been sufficiently long enough. For outdoor tables and benches, I prefer bolting/screwing to gluing where possible.
.

.

[LarryG]

The top- and bottom-most boards in the photo below illustrates what Sarge says about the pith at the center. Throw that middle section away and you're left with two outer pieces with near-vertical grain:



Like Sarge, I bought only 2x10s and 2x12s to build my Roubo, and ripped them down to size. BTW, the numbers at left are the moisture content range at the time I bought the materials and stacked them in my shop. After acclimating some four months, the range dropped an average of about two points: the drier boards stayed about the same, the wetter ones went down three, four, sometimes even five points. The letters at right were for control purposes, so I could figure out where each piece of lumber should end up in the completed bench. This is about a quarter of the total amount of lumber I bought; selection was based on the best compromise between grain, clearness, and moisture content. Note that board "T" is flat-sawn; but it made up for that by being dry and clear. It probably ended up as part of one of the stretchers shown in the previous image.

[JR]

...and now for something completely different.

How about bowling-lane bench tops? $150 for 42" x 14'. http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/mat/989791590.html



With white oak frames at price undknown?


http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/mat/989778504.html

Sorry about the hijack, Jon, but these two CL listings showed up together and just called out to me.

JR

[poolhound]

Thanks guys for all the great replies. Judging from your inputs I think that it is SYP (or close variant). Unfortunatley looking at the end grain a lot of it appears to have come from the center or close to it so with that plus the knots I doubt I could yield enough for a top but may have enough to build a base.

For those that have built or are building their benches approx how much stock for the base and top respectively has it taken assuming an approx finished size of 2' x 5'? at these dimensions the top would need 30 bd/ft (assuming 3" thick) without accounting for waste. I have approx 40 bd/ft of both Ash and Alder in my stock pile. It would be great if I didnt have to go and buy new. Not sure if Alder will be hard enough.

To force myself into action I have just put my current basic bench onto my local CL. If I get somebody to take it I will have no choice but to build a new one

[LarryG]

VERY roughly speaking, and with NO allowance for waste (IOW, these figures are based on the finished sizes of the various pieces):

Legs - five BF each, times four.
Long stretchers - four BF each, times 2
End stretchers - 1.5 BF each, times four
Bench top - 66 BF (4.25" thick)

My bench will be 28" x 84", considerably larger than you propose. However the leg sizes would still be about the same, and you'll still need four of them. The board footage for the long stretchers will depend on how much your top overhangs at each end. If you push your legs all the way out to the corners, your long stretchers will be almost as long as mine. Lastly, my bench will have two stretchers at each end -- one high, one low. If your design doesn't require the upper set, deduct accordingly.

I don't recall how much waste I allowed when I bought my material but, framing lumber being what it is, it was probably at least 30 percent.

[cabinetman]

I have approx 40 bd/ft of both Ash and Alder in my stock pile. It would be great if I didnt have to go and buy new. Not sure if Alder will be hard enough.

Around here, SYP is a whole lot cheaper than Alder and Ash. If you could get what you need from your SYP stockpile, or close to it, just pick up enough to finish, and save the Alder and Ash for something special.
.