Kid's Chair

[jx67]

Hi There,

Looking at building a chair for my son. Looking at a chair height of 16". This is really the first time I am building chair. Anything I should watch out for?

One of the things, in the previous projects, I've been very much using the biscuit joiner a lot, but I am doubting whether that's strong enough especially seeing how he rocked the old chair loose.

Thanks,
Joe.

[just started]

Work quick so he doesn't outgrow it before you finish it.

[ironhat]

Do you have a plan that you're following, Joe? I'm going to assume that you will be using rectangular stock so trying your hand at mortise and tenon jointery might filll your need. It's a very strong joint and you could also cross-pin the joint with a dowel to prevent separation. That's probably overkill with today's glues, though. I'am by far the last person who should be coaching you but all I can say is that the M/T joints that I have made have never shown any signs of separation.

[jx67]

I think mortise and tenon jointery would be the best, but I've never done it before and not sure how neat and fit I can make it.

BTW, The chair I am planning is very simple:
16" seat height with the seat about 16x16x0.75. I will just use 2x2's as the legs and back, while quite a few 1x2's as the bars. It's just a straight back chair.

Most of the kid's chair from the department stores I found really just use dowels, but that's why my son can wiggle them loose

... and yes, the worry is that it takes me too long to build that it won't fit him before its done.

Joe.

[ironhat]

I think mortise and tenon jointery would be the best, but I've never done it before and not sure how neat and fit I can make it.
That's where we all start and you have to start somewhere.

BTW, The chair I am planning is very simple: A good project for learning new skills, then.
<snip>

Joe.

I have to write something outside the " " marks to be accetable to the software, so this is it.

[docrowan]

Some low dollar kids chair's I've seen use the glue at the joints pretty sparingly, some are almost dry fit, just a little crust of glue on one side. I think if you make something from scratch and hit it good with the glue you won't have to worry about the joints. I've never made a chair but I've fixed some store bought ones that separated and my reglued joints never came apart again.

[JR]

I think mortise and tenon jointery would be the best, but I've never done it before and not sure how neat and fit I can make it.

My first "serious" projects had M&T joints. I figured, "I've been watching Norm for years. This'll be easy!"

It was easy. Well, maybe a little harder than Norm would incidate in a 30-miute program, but still not rocket science. (Waxing philosophic now) I think M&T joints are emblematic of the difference between woodworking and carpentry. Not only do you have to make the cuts, but you have to fiddle with the wood until it fits just the way you want it.

There are several ways to fabricate these joints. Hand tools, router, table saw. Combinations of those tools.

If you have a router you can make M&T joints in a minute.

Go for it!

JR

[jx67]

That's encouraging. I have a router, but I still don't see I can make M/T within an hour. Don't you have to chisel the wood - just perfectly?

Joe.

[jx67]

Some low dollar kids chair's I've seen use the glue at the joints pretty sparingly, some are almost dry fit, just a little crust of glue on one side. I think if you make something from scratch and hit it good with the glue you won't have to worry about the joints. I've never made a chair but I've fixed some store bought ones that separated and my reglued joints never came apart again.

I wonder if I used the bad glue - mine fell apart within a month. Maybe I didn't clean it as well.

Joe.

[jx67]

I have to write something outside the " " marks to be accetable to the software, so this is it.

Yep, agree. Definitely a process to learn some new skills. Kind of amazing when I think about it - I never sweat over all the chest and entertainment centers, but this lousy chair is getting me so darn consumed.

Joe.

[poolhound]

That's encouraging. I have a router, but I still don't see I can make M/T within an hour. Don't you have to chisel the wood - just perfectly?

Joe.

I agree with the OPs that M&T would be best for a chair, biscuits wouldnt really have the strength. You could use multiple dowels (essentialy loose tenons) but I think the registration of all the dowels would drive you mad. It does me so I rarely use them.

Sticking (no pun intended) on the same theme you might consider loose tenon joints. In theory not quite as strong as a regular M&T but would be fine for this. That way all you have to do is cut the mortises and if you use the router you can round the end of the tenons and no chisels needed, just your router and table saw (or bandsaw).

Once you figure out the process you can batch them all and you will be done in no time.

[leehljp]

Here is a link to MilDoc's chair. Real Nice!

http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=38282

[JR]

That's encouraging. I have a router, but I still don't see I can make M/T within an hour. Don't you have to chisel the wood - just perfectly?

Picking up on Poolhound's loose tenon idea (a good one!):

Let's say you want to make 3/8" mortises. You decide this because you have 1-by stretchers, which are actually 3/4" thick. 3/8" mortises leave a nice 3/16" of material on the outside of the mortise. A plunge base on your router will be extremely beneficial.

1. Cut the stretchers to exact length. Since we're using loose tenons you don't need to have extra length for the tenons.

2. Use a pencil to mark the ends of the stretchers and the sides of the legswhere the mortises will go. It will help to have the legs grouped together and the stretchers grouped together, so you can see that marks are going in the right place.

3. Chuck up a 3/8" straight bit in your router. Rout the mortises to good depth, say 1". There are couple of choices for how to use the router in this way, error free, but for now let's say you have a guide fence on the router. Use it to register in a consistent way for similar cuts. For stretchers always have the fence ride on the outside (or the inside if you're and inny). Same for the legs - find a way to make sure the mortises are in exactly the same position as their opposit number.

4. Mill your loose tenon stock to 3/8" thick, preferably using a planer or hand plane. If you have to use a tablesaw, so be it. Sneak up on the thickness so that it matches the mortises.

5. Cut the loose tenons to width, matching the length of your tenons.

6. Chuck up a round-over bit in the router. Rout the edges of the loose tenons to match the 3/8" diameter ends of the mortises. You can use a 3/16" roundover bit or a 3/8" bullnose bit. Alternatively this step can be done by hand with a block plane. Or use a rasp and a file. It doesn't need to be perfect, it just needs to go together.

6b. Alternate solution to #6. Square the mortises using a chisel and leave the loose tenons square on the sides.

7. Cut the tenon stock into 1-3/4" lengths.

8. Dry fit the assembly. You will now discover that some of the tenons will need to be diddled with. For instance, where two mortises were cut at 90 degrees to one another, the tenons might fight for that space. Cut them at 45 degrees, shorten them, or do whatever it takes to make the assembly fit.

9. Glue it up and pat yourself on the back.

There are lots of ways to make M&T joints. Using something similar to what I describe here will make nice clean cuts.

This kind of thing is what woodworking is all about. Have fun.

JR

[jx67]

Thanks JR and Jon, great suggestions. I guess I will give it a try.

Mildoc's chair is really neat - no, I am not going to make one like that - just going for the basic.

Joe.

[jx67]

I have a router guide and plunge base. Just wonder what's usually the trick to stabilize the whole thing so the cut won't wobble? I would assume you push (or pull) hard against the fence, but wonder anyone has a better way.

Thanks,
Joe.