Building a built-in. Should I try to match the existing molding?

[BigguyZ]

OK, I'm building a built-in bank of drawers and shelves in my bedroom. I'm only in the planning stages right now, so I'm looking at what materials I'll be using. I figure the whole thing will have 4 or 5 drawers for clothes and storage, and then 2 or 3 shelves for books, or other display items. The whole apt has original pine molding stained a dark brown color.

Now I figure the construction will be a simple carcass with the drawers built built as boxes with false fronts, which will probably be inlaid within in a face frame that coveres the box edge and the transition to the wall.

Should I use pine for the face frame and drawer fronts and try to match the color of the molding, or should I use something like oak and not care if it's different? Also, if I go with oak for the molding I figure I'll go oak for the interior of the shelf carcass, but if I go with pine for the molding, should I get a birch plywood and try to match that separately? Or find a good quality pine plywood (not sure where I could get some)?

Also, is it difficult to match finishes? The house is around 100 years old, so I'm worried that if I try to match the pine it'll look like new pine anyways, which still won't match and look worse than new oak. Does that make sense? What are your thoughts?

Thanks!

[AAJIII]

It really depends on your personal preference. But having said that, I like my work to stand out. So the built in can be in a different wood and finish as long as they don't clash. (WIth the style of the room)

Al

[Lonnie in Orlando]

I'm an old-house-hugger. I would try to match the built-in work with the old.

> The "dark stained" pine may be 100yrs of grime that built up on the original shellac or varnish finish. Rather than clean the old finish, I would try to match the new work to it.
The wood and finish have also darkened as they was exposed to UV over the years.

> In addition to the color, the old pine probably has tighter growth rings than HD or Lowe's pine. Search for an archetectural salvage company that may have some old growth pine flooring or trim that you can mill to match the original wood. You can also buy old growth pine and heart pine from some small sawmills and specialty wood suppliers like Goodwin Heart Pine in Florida.

> If you can find old growth pine, try to match its character to the original ... flat sawn, rift sawn, vertical grain (quarter sawn).

> Finding a color techinque is a gut-felt hit-and-miss. Experiment with your own concoctions until you get a color and finish that you can live with. Possibly some dyes, amber or garnet shellac, tinted varnish, etc. Freshly milled old pine will darken and become richer in about 6-mo.

> Re: Hidden interior of case work and drawers - I would choose birch. It's flat, smooth, and true. If you don't like the light color, you could dye it, and/or top coat with amber or garnet shellac, but it's not as easy as it sounds to get a uniform color inside.

> (just brainstorming ...) If the interiors are exposed, such as open shelves, You should be able to find old growth bead board at an arch. salvage yard. You could use it to line the inside of the case work ... nail, don't glue. Or you could mill the edges of old pine to ship lap the interior.

Good luck with your project.

- Lonnie

[BigguyZ]

Wow, two responses and two different answers (not that I'm surprised). Well, the thing is I'm also on a budget. Salvaged pine or even old-growth pine from a speacialy mill would be rather expensive. I love old houses and improving them, but I'm not a real stickler for having any improvement being as original as possible. At least not if it's goign to increase the cost of the project five fold. So, given that, do you think I could do a reasonable job with the pine available in today's stores?

As far as the drawers go, I'm definitely going to use baltic birch ply. It's just too stable a material, and it finishes well, IMHO. I'm planning on getting a HVLP unit and doing a spray finish of shellac.

[Mr__Bill]

Back in the 70's I lived in a few old apartments in Minneapolis that had built-ins. They all had matching moldings. It kind of ties the room together, which I think is the purpose of built-ins. However, they were built of FIR and not pine. Age of the buildings ranged from about 1900 to 1930.

Good luck with the project, it sounds rather interesting.

Bill

[Garasaki]

I wouldn't be too concerned about matching existing.

I did a built in recently where I was a little concerned about oak moulding die-ing into my maple built in with a totally different style about the whole thing then the moulding profile.

In the end, I didn't have enough time to REALLY worry about it and just built the darn thing.

Turned out fine, I actually like the transition of the moulding into the different material and style.

[BigguyZ]

Back in the 70's I lived in a few old apartments in Minneapolis that had built-ins. They all had matching moldings. It kind of ties the room together, which I think is the purpose of built-ins. However, they were built of FIR and not pine. Age of the buildings ranged from about 1900 to 1930.

Good luck with the project, it sounds rather interesting.

Bill

So maybe the trick is to mainly match the color, if not the grain? I would agree that that'd be the biggest issue. So I could use a birch interior with fir drawer fronts and face frame?

Just to give you all an idea of what I'm doing, I'll attach a couple of pictures that roughly lay out the project. It's part of re-doing the closet, which is 2.5" wide and 8' long. So, pretty much 6' of that space is useless. So, I'm doing what I think is a fairly radical project to make use of as much space as possible.

[Mr__Bill]

I think you have hit on it. Matching the color or over all look will tie it nicely into the room. If you can't match the molding then keeping it to the same style and period will make it look right IMHO at least.

[JimD]

Stained softwood would be much lower cost and would probably fit in better although at the back of a closet I don't think matching would be that important (if I understand your intent). I would get a board or two and some stain and see how good a match you can get. I rarely use stains but when I do, I have almost always used minwax oil based stains. How long you leave them on the wood helps to determine how dark they get. Others prefer aniline dyes.

For finish, I love Resisthane. It is a pre-cat (tough) lacquer that is water based. It dries to recoat in 1 hour and sprays well. About $35/gallon from Hood finishing (you can see it on their website but I always have to call them to place an order).

Jim

[jhart]

In Minneapolis you may want to go to Hirschfield's and have them match the stain color. We did that on our 115 year old home after trying a number of times on our own. They did a super job.

[cabinetman]

This is an excellent question. I've had to match up new work to old work. It's very difficult to do. Getting it to an "almost perfect" look (if possible) is just as noticeable as a different look.

If I had my druthers I wouldn't spend the time and aggravation of all the testing. I would come up with a specie and finish that would compliment existing woodworking. It could be a drastic "stand out" change or just a done in a subtle way, but definitely different.
.

[BigguyZ]

Cabinetman- That was my thought exactly. But I really could go either way on this. I think that no matter what I do it won't match. So maybe the question is if it's more distracting to have a close-but-not-quite finish, or something that says "I may be made of wood too, but I'm something separate from the trim"

Joe- I've heard of Hirschfield's, but I can't think of where. What kind of store is it?

[Mr__Bill]

I have found that coffee is a good stain for matching the old look to wood, as is just plain dirt. If you need that pink look of really old pine, say 200 years, watered down beet juice will do the trick too. Be careful tho, as unlike coffee and dirt the beet juice doesn't come out it you use too much.

[jhart]

Hirschfield's is a higher end paint/wallpaper store, with a bunch of stores around the twin cities. I know there are ones in So. Mpls on Lake Street, Edina near Southdale, and Minnetonka. They carry name brands as well as their own brand of paint. Have never tried their paint. They now also own the Lathrop paint stores (one on Hennepin Ave.)
They are proud of their prices, but do have good sales on Benjamin Moore paint which I use a lot for outside house paint. They are in the Phone book for locations.
When we were looking at matching the stain in our house, were told by numerous people that they were extremely good at matching. Ours came out terrific.

[BigguyZ]

Joe,
I think I'll bring a piece of the old molding to them to see what they can do. As long as it's not too expensive, I don't mind making a miniman effort to get it done right. If it's not what I'm looking for, I can always go with another type of wood/ finish.