biscuit vs pocket screw

[eddy merckx]

Hi all

It sounds like I'll be building a sewing room full of cabinets this winter, proabably in birch or similar light wood. Since I don't have tools for either, I was hoping for some advice on biscuit vs pocket screw construction.

Aside from clamping time, are biscuits easier align because of the built-in slop?
Do biscuits work in melamine? Most imprortant, does one system have a shallower learning curve?

I'm leaning toward a biscuit joiner because I think it will be more versatile in the shop but I'm all for the easiest method.

Thanks,
Eddy

[jspelbring]

I can do that

You might take a look at this:http://www.popularwoodworking.com/icandothat
There's a nice book (largish PDF) that does a good job (IMHO) of comparing biscuits and pocket joinery.

Hope this helps, and good luck with the project.

[charliex]

Eddy, I have both methods available and for cabinets I would go with the plate joiner. It will work very well with melamine and even better in ply. 90 % of my shop cabinets are melamine with biscuits, dowels, and screws holding them together. LOML's sewing cabinet is ply, MDF and melamine with screws and dowels because it is a large L shape and it needs to be disassembled to move. It's been in use for 4 years and been moved once and it is still solid as the day I built it.

[LCHIEN]

I would say one major difference is in how and when things are lined up.
With the BJ, you draw the lines and mark the locations then you biscuit each half individually The settings of the BJ set the biscuit to surface distance precisely, and the horiz. position closely. When you assemble the horiz position has a bit of play for final line up but your depth/height should be lined up perfectly.

With the PHJ, you drill the holes in one piece only. Then the whole assembly has to be lined up perfectly and the screw installed.

Thus the difference is that the some things are easy to lineup to screw together and some things are not - depends on the size and complexity of the final assembly. I for one like havving both in my arsenal.

PS a couple more comments - the biscuits work well in wider joints but the PHJ work better for skinny joints like 2" face frames where BJ just won't work unless you get those mini biscuits. Also with BJ the glue is required whereas with PHJ, glue is optional. Finally Biscuits are totally hidden whereas PHJ shows from one side - may or may not be an issue with you.

[cabinetman]

You might evaluate your need for using either method. Cabinets can be assembled without biscuits or pocket screws. There are situations where those two methods may seem a likely method. Fabrication techniques that utilize the panels' thickness develop strong joints. Sufficient glue area will bond panels beyond the abilities of spaced attachment of either pocket screws or biscuits.

I'm suggesting a routine I use on every project that I do. I will develop a drawing, (doesn't have to be an award winner). It can be a simple pencil sketch on notebook paper. Draw the pieces to be made in large enough size (to scale would be better), and from that decide the best method for assembly. All the corners, or where panels attach to each other have a few ways the attachment can be done.

Your use of these sketches will enable you to see your project in any "state of being" before you cut a single piece . It can be helpful in figuring materials and cut list. They may also be an indicator as to the assembly procedure from start to finish so you don't get ahead of yourself, or forget a step, and keep track of the parts.

Some of the shortcut methods may not provide the best approach. So, in evaluating your use of either biscuits or pocket screws, weigh against those with all the alternatives. After your analysis, you might ask yourself why biscuits or pocket screws are being considered.

[drumpriest]

A couple of other options are double dowel, and mortise and tenon. I have ordered a domino, and am looking forward to putting it through its paces for a review here.

I've build cabinets with pocket screw face frames, and it works fine, only trouble is that it's possible to see the pockets if you really want to. I personally feel that PS is stronger than biscuits. Biscuits are fine as well for this application, but you'll need a trickier clamping strategy. Pocket screws are not going to work so well in particle board materials.

Dowels are stronger than both, in my way of thinking. The screw is obviously stronger, but it'll machine itself loose over time. The double dowel works great, but takes a bit longer to machine. The 2 dowels ensure coplaner boards, and clamping is easy. Mortise and tenon takes longer still, has the same clamping attributes as double dowel, and is stronger.

Bringing me back to the Domino, expensive, but super quick and easy machining, and strong as you'd like. Works great in just about any material.

And as to what Cabinetman was eluding, dado and rabbet joints for cabinet carcasses are also great, lots of glue surface, not hard to machine, etc...

[DonHo]

Well I'm probably the least experienced of those offering advice but I'll put in my 2 cents anyway I've used both methods and both have their strong points but for ease of use, strength and speed I use pocket screws almost all the time. I mostly only use biscuts in glue up for tops and if the pockets would detract from the appearancce. I made my wife a cutting table with cabinets underneath using pocket screws and the pocket screws don't show at all unless you get down on hands and knees and search for them. The biggest plus I find for pocket screws is you can do the glue up without clamps and then move the project around just as soon as assembly is finished instead of waiting for the glue to dry.
DonHo

[eddy merckx]

Wow, thanks for the responses guys. I does seem that there is no clear answer, more personal preference and experience. I like Loring's suggestion of having both systems. I think I'll start with a biscuit joiner. It is, after all, a power tool. I was thinking of getting a DeWalt which they have at the local Lowes. Anybody have a suggestion otherwise? They also have the Freud for 1/2 as much, but it just does 90 and 45 degrees.

Thanks!

Eddy

[LCHIEN]

Wow, thanks for the responses guys. I does seem that there is no clear answer, more personal preference and experience. I like Loring's suggestion of having both systems. I think I'll start with a biscuit joiner. It is, after all, a power tool. I was thinking of getting a DeWalt which they have at the local Lowes. Anybody have a suggestion otherwise? They also have the Freud for 1/2 as much, but it just does 90 and 45 degrees.

Thanks!

Eddy

I have the dewalt. Have not used any other except for an HF unit which I had for 3 days... The dewalt is OK, does what its supposed to.

[LarryG]

I was thinking of getting a DeWalt which they have at the local Lowes. Anybody have a suggestion otherwise?

I've read several comparison tests on these things. The Porter-Cable 557 virtually always wins, so that's what I bought. "Virtually" because if the mega-expensive Lamello is included, it will either tie with the P-C or narrowly beat it. But I've also seen at least one test in which the $600 Lamello was beaten by the $200 P-C.

Among the other brands, the DeWalt and Makita are typically a close second to the P-C. I don't think you'd go wrong with any of those three.

[Ken Massingale]

JMHO, but for any cabinets other than shop cabinets I'll use biscuits. Those holes left with pocket screws are just plain ugly. I've tried the plugs and can't get them to fit. I even called Kreg and was told they are intended for thick material like 2 by 4's.

I haven't used the Dewalt but I'm sure it's a decent tool, the PC 557 is excellent based on my experience, much better than the Freud I had previously.

[jlm]

I'm going to add my endorsement of the Porter-Cable here. It's the only biscuit joiner I've ever used, so my opinion isn't worth much, but it's a fine tool. Precise , solid adjustments, and way more adjustable than I'll probably ever need. My only complaint is the dust bag is a little narrow, so it tends to clog with shavings, but other than that it's a great choice.

[bthere]

I've had a chance to use a Ryobi and a Dewalt biscuit joiner and I own the Porter-Cable 557. Of the three, the Ryobi is kind of an also ran. The Dewalt and PC are both very nice, but for fit and finish, as well as ease of setup, I have to give the nod to the Porter-Cable. The dust bag can fill up and the chute gets clogged pretty quickly, so I almost always use it with a vacuum.

[eddy merckx]

Thanks for the advice guys. I read some other reviews as well and everybody seems to agree that the PC is the way to go. I checked one out at HD. It really does have a lot of nice features. I like the face frame capability.

I see that there is virtually no price variation on the PC. I wonder if they insist on a certain retail price from all their dealers. If they do, they have my respect for being able to control discounting. That really helps keep the little guy in business.

If I get one, will I be able to do work just like David Marks? Last night I watched him build a mahogany dresser using biscuits for varoius joints. He made it look soooooo easy.

Eddy

[ragswl4]

Keep an eye on CraigsList, the PC and Dewalt biscuit joiner show up there occasionally. If you are not in a hurry they tend to be pretty reasonable. I picked up a Dewalt, hardly used, for $90. The face frame capability of the PC would be nice but you might consider pocket screws for that. Very quick and no clamping required.