Shop Cabinets Questions

[Bcrowell]

I am in the process of building some shop cabinets as my first project.
To this point I have made the frames of the cabinets using ¾ birch plywood. They are assembled using PHJ.

My questions are as follows:
Can I use the ¾ in ply to make the face frames? My intentions are to make them 1 ½ inches wide.
Can I use ½ birch plywood for the doors? As I said above I am making shop cabinets so nothing fancy here.
My concern is that the ¾ will be to heavy however that the ½ will tend to warp/twist over time.

My largest door will be 22”x44”.

Thanks in advance.

Ben

[jhart]

I made a cabinet out of 3/4 ply, double door, 6 ft. high X 4 ft wide with the doors being the same plywood and edged with Oak strips. The face frame was from 3/4 oak. I used 3 hinges on each of the doors and has worked well so far (about 2 1/2 years). Don't think you'll have any problems with your size if you use good strong hinges.

[Garasaki]

I don't think you want to make the face frame out of plywood.

1) It REALLY won't look good. Plys visible everywhere.

2) Jointery might be interesting, trying to join the end grain onto side grain using plywood, will be a plys into plys exercise...which I don't believe I would enjoy.

3) Extra work...your going to have to rip the ply into strips to start.

Hit up the local cabinet shop and see if you can get some sort of scrap to use for the face frames, or head to the local borg and pick up the cheapest wood you can find for the face frame.

PS - I dont' think you'll have any problems with 1/2" ply for the door insets, particularly if you are using "real" bb (the 9 ply stuff).

[Bcrowell]

Thanks for the replies. I should have mentioned that I intend to paint the cabinets so the finished look of the ply is of no concern.

I will hit the BORG for wood for the face frames. I have not found any “real” bb in ½” only in ¾” at the local BORG. Could I use the birch ply that has a higher laminate count?
Also you mentioned for the “door instets” I am not intending on making a frame for the doors with the typical rails and stiles just a piece of ply cut to the finished size.

[JR]

My shop cabinets are 3/4" plywood, as are the doors. I went frameless, using european hinges that open in zero space.

JR

[Black wallnut]

I can see no reason why what you are planning would not work. Ply should work fine for faceframes and would even be less work than solid wood. With an added bonus that your stock should be very uniform in thickness. 1/2" ply doors would be fine but if you changed this to 3/4" ply you could rabbet the doors which may keep dust out better.

[Ken Massingale]

I'm making shop cabs (uppers only so far) with cheap 3/4 ply. As you said, I made the faceframes and doors from the same ply. I rounded over the edges. For the shop, especially after painting them, I don't see an issue, they 'are' shop cabinets after all. I know WW's that wouldn't have them near their shop, much less inside, but those guys don't allow Pine or Poplar in their shop either.
Oh, the same guys are also tool Snobs.
It's your shop do as 'you' want, it's no one else's business.
ken

[Garasaki]

The reason I stated that I wouldn't like working with ply for face frames is the tendency of the ply to delaminate while you are milling it.

So my statement was based on the fact that I don't believe I'd enjoy machining the edges of the ply for any sort of "fastener-less" joinery (can you imagine making M & T joints in plywood...?) and I'm not sure how well the plywood would accept pocketscrews (the method I used for faceframes on my shop cabinets), again into the ply-ed portion of the sheet.

If it works, which apparently it did for Ken, great. I'm just trying to point out what I would see as a potential pitfall.

[Tom Miller]

The reason I stated that I wouldn't like working with ply for face frames is the tendency of the ply to delaminate while you are milling it.

8< [snip]

If it works, which apparently it did for Ken, great. I'm just trying to point out what I would see as a potential pitfall.

It's possible that not everyone has the same grade of ply in mind. I wouldn't hesitate making face frames using pocket holes with the baltic birch I buy. But the HD stuff that merely has as many plies as BB -- that's another story. Some of that stuff comes pre-delaminated. And, I think not all HD ply is the same, either.

Regards,
Tom

[Ken Massingale]

I hope my comment didn't seem to be directed at you, Garasaki, it wasn't intended that way in any manner. I aplogize if it came across that way.

Just for info, the ply I'm using is 9 plys, I get it used for $4 for 37" by 47" pieces. It is from Apple Juice crates. It does Pocket Screws well, but after the first one I decided to rabbet and glue, with 'a few Norm brads, till the glue drys'. Yeah, I admit, I do use brads, but only for shop stuff.

[Garasaki]

That's cool Ken...I was just trying to clarify that I suggested against using it for practical reasons, not just being a wood snob (which I actually am to a degree).

Question for you remains though, how do you joint your plywood face frames? I can't visualize how someone would use a rabbet to join perpendicular pieces like that (short of running a rabbet down the entire side...I process I just termed in my head "over-rabbeting"...pretty catchy hunh)??

[LCHIEN]

I don't think you want to make the face frame out of plywood.

1) It REALLY won't look good. Plys visible everywhere.

2) Jointery might be interesting, trying to join the end grain onto side grain using plywood, will be a plys into plys exercise...which I don't believe I would enjoy.

3) Extra work...your going to have to rip the ply into strips to start.

Hit up the local cabinet shop and see if you can get some sort of scrap to use for the face frames, or head to the local borg and pick up the cheapest wood you can find for the face frame.

PS - I dont' think you'll have any problems with 1/2" ply for the door insets, particularly if you are using "real" bb (the 9 ply stuff).

My first reaction was the same 3 thoughts that garaski wrote.
I think you can do fine with the so-called white-wood 1x2s which should be nominally 3/4 x 1-1/2 inch. But you may have to rip and plane to consistent width depending upon how fussy you are.
The ply will have the ply edge showing when the door is open and around the ends of the cabinet if visible. I sort of think one of the purposes of a face fram is to hide the ply edges of the carcass.
But, if ply is more convenient and the appearence is of no concern, then have at it.

[Ken Massingale]

That's cool Ken...I was just trying to clarify that I suggested against using it for practical reasons, not just being a wood snob (which I actually am to a degree).

Question for you remains though, how do you joint your plywood face frames? I can't visualize how someone would use a rabbet to join perpendicular pieces like that (short of running a rabbet down the entire side...I process I just termed in my head "over-rabbeting"...pretty catchy hunh)??

I Norm'ed the heck out of them, brads and glue. Hid em behind the doors.
Only used a brad about every 2 ft. or so, 'till the glue drys'. ;-D

[Bcrowell]

I purchased the ply from HD, it was labeled birch plywood. I have not counted the exact number of layers but 9 sounds correct. I will check tonight to be sure. I had to go to about 4 HD stores to find any ply labeled birch. It was sold in 4x8 sheets and I bought the last 8 sheets. I was told they are no longer going to carry the birch as they now have some other type of ply that is sanded on each side. The labeling had no mention of the actual wood type only that it was suitable for cabinets along with a bunch of other types of projects.
I have made several cabinet frames to this point including one that is 22” deep with slide out shelving thanks to some datacenter server rack demo items found around the workplace.
All of the frames are made with PHJ. I am going to save the ply and get some 1x2 if I can find any straight ones. I may end up ripping my own however I have decided against using ply for the face frames. As far as the door edging I am planning on painting the cabinets so I will just sand and fill any issues with the plywood edges before paint.