Question about pocket hole screws

[Anna]

I'm using pocket hole screws in building some shop cabinets (I have the Kreg K3). My problem is that when I drive the screws in, the screw head does not sit flush with the wood which makes it difficult to stack the cabinets on top of each other.

I think I set the depth of the drill bit correctly. I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong. Any suggestions/pointers?

Thanks.

Anna

[dlminehart]

Sure sounds like the countersink part of the hole isn't deep enough.

[Anna]

Hi, David,

Problem is, if I make it any deeper, it comes out the other side. I use the markings on the jig itself (I have the master kit) to set the bit depth.

I'm using the screws with the washer head. Should I be using the pan head instead?

[LCHIEN]

Hi, David,

Problem is, if I make it any deeper, it comes out the other side. I use the markings on the jig itself (I have the master kit) to set the bit depth.

I'm using the screws with the washer head. Should I be using the pan head instead?

if that's the case, then maybe you haveven't selected the right height extension (thicker stock = more height extension.)
that will make the bit enter the wood farther from the end,
allow more countersink depth and have the screw more centered in the edge of the wood.

[Anna]

if that's the case, then maybe you haveven't selected the right height extension (thicker stock = more height extension.)
that will make the bit enter the wood farther from the end,
allow more countersink depth and have the screw more centered in the edge of the wood.

Yikes! Thanks. Got it. Imagine me now slapping myself in the forehead. This is embarrassing.

Thanks again.


- Anna

[LCHIEN]

Yikes! Thanks. Got it. Imagine me now slapping myself in the forehead. This is embarrassing.

Thanks again.


- Anna

RTFM
I admit I have to do it when i use the Kreg kit. Never sure what screw length to use and which extension to put on the jig.

Also you may need longer screws when you do this.

[Anna]

Hi, Loring,

Well, maybe you can tell me if I'm doing this right:

I'm using 3/4" birch ply. I rabbet the side pieces to accommodate the top and bottom, so the parts with the rabbets are now less than about 1/2". I drill the pocket screws in the top and bottom pieces.

I now know that I'm supposed to set the height extension to 3/4" (I used it for half-inch drawer slides before, and I guess I've forgotten about that part) to drill into the top and bottom. But since the sides are only about 1/2", shouldn't I be using 1" screws? I'm also assuming that I use coarse screws with plywood.

Thanks again
-Anna

[spratone]

Yeah, I have had problems with this before. I think the manual says that 1/2 inch is the lowest you can go. The rabit may be the cause of the problem, Might need to adjust the height of the jig to account for the rabbit (if the board you are drilling is the one with the rabbit, raise the jig the additional width of the rabbit). Try it on some scrap boards first to get your adjustment right.

[LCHIEN]

Hi, Loring,

Well, maybe you can tell me if I'm doing this right:

I'm using 3/4" birch ply. I rabbet the side pieces to accommodate the top and bottom, so the parts with the rabbets are now less than about 1/2". I drill the pocket screws in the top and bottom pieces.

I now know that I'm supposed to set the height extension to 3/4" (I used it for half-inch drawer slides before, and I guess I've forgotten about that part) to drill into the top and bottom. But since the sides are only about 1/2", shouldn't I be using 1" screws? I'm also assuming that I use coarse screws with plywood.

Thanks again
-Anna

The use of a rabbet is usually done to facilitate gluing surface - a little more strength. Are you going to glue and pocket screw?

With just a half inch there's not much depth for those pocket screws to hold in. THAT WOULD worry me depending upon whether the screws were for strenth or alignment (with glue providing strength).

So 1/2" would call for a short screw. But its worrisome for the reaasons above. At this point I usually try a sample joint and see what I get (e.g. breakout with the 1.25" screw oand sufficient strength on the short screw...

big help, huh?

[Anna]

The use of a rabbet is usually done to facilitate gluing surface - a little more strength. Are you going to glue and pocket screw?

With just a half inch there's not much depth for those pocket screws to hold in. THAT WOULD worry me depending upon whether the screws were for strenth or alignment (with glue providing strength).

So 1/2" would call for a short screw. But its worrisome for the reaasons above. At this point I usually try a sample joint and see what I get (e.g. breakout with the 1.25" screw oand sufficient strength on the short screw...

big help, huh?

I am using both glue and pocket screws. I'm still a little paranoid about these things.

I wasn't very happy with the pocket screws through the top and bottom and into the rabbeted sides - as you mentioned, there's not much wood to hold onto - so I ended up putting in a few more screws from the sides into the top and bottom. It's a mess, and it looks pretty ugly.

Would you suggest then that if I'm using pocket screws, I shouldn't rabbet the sides at all?

I'm practicing for when I start building the cabinets for the garage. Maybe if I really screw things up, my husband will finally agree to build them himself. j/k. There's too much pride at stake now. And too many tool purchases to justify.

Anna

[LCHIEN]

I am using both glue and pocket screws. I'm still a little paranoid about these things.

I wasn't very happy with the pocket screws through the top and bottom and into the rabbeted sides - as you mentioned, there's not much wood to hold onto - so I ended up putting in a few more screws from the sides into the top and bottom. It's a mess, and it looks pretty ugly.

Would you suggest then that if I'm using pocket screws, I shouldn't rabbet the sides at all?

I'm practicing for when I start building the cabinets for the garage. Maybe if I really screw things up, my husband will finally agree to build them himself. j/k. There's too much pride at stake now. And too many tool purchases to justify.

Anna

well, you've gone into some deep questions about cabinet building.
My protypical cabinet would be plywood sides and a masonite back
I would rabbet the corners, perhaps a double rabbet. and not use pocket screws. I would use glue (hence the double rabetted corners - more glue area) and I would shoot a brad nail every four inches or so to hold it while the glue set. Then I'd rabbet the back all around for the masonite panel and brad or staple it into place.
hardwood edging or perhaps a face frame around the front.

[Tom Miller]

Would you suggest then that if I'm using pocket screws, I shouldn't rabbet the sides at all?

I think the advantage of the pocket screw is that it allows you to make the simplest of joints, the butt joint, strong enough for the given application.

A glued rabbet joint is strong enough on its own, and really diminishes the effectiveness of the (unnecessary) pocket screw, as you're finding out.

(I've had a pocket screw jig for months, so now I'm an expert. )

Regards,
Tom

[Anna]

I think the advantage of the pocket screw is that it allows you to make the simplest of joints, the butt joint, strong enough for the given application.

A glued rabbet joint is strong enough on its own, and really diminishes the effectiveness of the (unnecessary) pocket screw, as you're finding out.

(I've had a pocket screw jig for months, so now I'm an expert. )

Regards,
Tom

I think I might have suffered a case of flawed logic. You know, "If A is good, and B is good, then A + B must be even better!" I'll chalk that up to newbieness, if just to save a little face.

I've been watching several pocket hole videos, including the Kreg cabinetmaking DVD and the Sommerfeld cabinet DVD. With the Kreg, they just used pure butt joints + glue + pocket hole screws. With Sommerfeld's, they (he) used a tongue-and-groove joint plus pocket holes. I guess that's where I got the bright idea of using rabbets plus pocket holes since I'm still to build my router table for the TG joint.

Anyway, thanks for the education, everyone. I've ended up with basically a rabbet-plus-glue-plus-coarse screws joint for these cabinets. Lesson learned.

[PALefty]

I think I might have suffered a case of flawed logic. You know, "If A is good, and B is good, then A + B must be even better!" I'll chalk that up to newbieness, if just to save a little face.

I've been watching several pocket hole videos, including the Kreg cabinetmaking DVD and the Sommerfeld cabinet DVD. With the Kreg, they just used pure butt joints + glue + pocket hole screws. With Sommerfeld's, they (he) used a tongue-and-groove joint plus pocket holes. I guess that's where I got the bright idea of using rabbets plus pocket holes since I'm still to build my router table for the TG joint.

Anyway, thanks for the education, everyone. I've ended up with basically a rabbet-plus-glue-plus-coarse screws joint for these cabinets. Lesson learned.

Well, I can say I learned from this post. I am in the same boat as you and was going to use the same logic in the inside panels of my entertainment center. I thought a dado/pocket screw/glue combo would be a stronger joint than just pocket screws and glue. I was trying to figure out how to adjust the PH jig settings to account for the difference and didn't recall seeing it in the video. Thanks to this timely post.. I will not do that. I guess I am just itchin to put my tools in action.

[JimD]

I like to use very shallow dados that add nearly no glueing area but really help with assembly. If you put a 1/16 or even a 1/8 dado in 3/4 material, it leaves enough so you can pocket screw.

My favorite way to make simple cabinets is to use screws through the face and plug the screw holes where they show. I have a 3/8 plug cutter that I use to cut plugs of material that matches the veneer of the plywood. You can still find the plugs but I find them not objectionable (and so does LOML). If I am painting (and one time when I wasn't), I have also used bondo to fill the coutersink for the screws. It is admittedly kind of crude but I did a whole kitchen this way with oak plywood and solid oak raised panel doors and the kitchen was a selling point when we sold that house. If you sand the plugs flush and take care to match the grain I think the cabinets look pretty good. They will also be better made than most commercial cabinets.

Jim