help me refine a project for my Cub Scout den please

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  • linear
    Senior Member
    • May 2004
    • 612
    • DeSoto, KS, USA.
    • Ryobi BT3100

    help me refine a project for my Cub Scout den please

    Hi,

    I would very much like to do a woodworking project with the 5 boys in my Cub Scout den (one is my son). I'll outline what I have in mind here, and then any suggestions for improvement or simplifiying it would be very welcome.

    The project is a cutting board, and I aim to have them make it specifically as a gift for their mother or other relative. I got some cutoffs from the cul bin at my lumberyard that are cherry glueups about 12x12". These are the basic blanks, and I have enough for 1 per boy and several spares.

    For a finish, I got some Salad Bowl Finish from General. It's nice in that it's a wipe-on, and doesn't overwhelm you with a solvent smell. And it's non-toxic when dry, a definite plus. (I know that other finishes are possibly non-toxic when dry, but this one is conclusively.)

    So I figured I'd run the boards through my planer to clean them up, just take a 32nd off each side. Then I'll let the boys sand them with some sanding blocks I'll make ahead of time out of MDF scrap. Here's woodworking lesson #1, sand with the grain.

    Then I'll have them wipe on the finish, wearing gloves to keep it off their hands. And here's lesson #2, getting the general idea of how and why to finish wood. The drying time required by the stuff will make it necessary to do finishing on two nights (at least part of the second night).

    I'm considering several enhancements to the program as outlined above, but those are the things I've pretty well committed to (i.e. bought the materials). Some of the ideas I had to enhance the project:

    1. My drill press is portable enough I can set it up and let them drill their cutting boards, then insert a piece of dowel in a contrasting color (I have a walnut dowel) to give the thing some interest. Pro: drill press is reasonably safe, quiet, and not terribly messy. Con: sanding that dowel flush with the surface may frustrate the little guys, and will certainly add to the time.

    2. I could make handles (probably walnut again) ahead of time that they then apply to the boards with glue and dowels. I'm having a hard time figuring out how to register the dowel holes reliably without drilling all the way through the handles. I suppose I could drill through the handles, but then use a plug to conceal the hole that shows. Pro: easy to register the handles by clamping them to the board blank and then drilling for the dowel. Boys can do some actual assembly. Con: I'd have to scare up some plugs, but no big deal there.

    2a. A variation on the above where I notch the ends of the boards to make it easy for them to align the handles, which would just be glued on. Done this way we'd have to wait for the glue to dry before handling the boards. The tother con is I have to cut a bunch of accurate notches!

    3. Route a profile into the edge of the board. I can bring a router table to the meeting, but I view this is really too dangerous for the kids to do, so I'm leaning toward doing this to the board blanks before I give them to the kids. I'm pretty convinced I should hand them boards with no sharp edges. If there's a reasonable way to let them see what that involves, I'm interested in doing it.

    4. Get their name on it by pyrography. I think this is cool. but I'm a little skeptical of their penmanship under ordinary conditions, let alone holding a hot iron. I think this is probably out for safety reasons, although I remember doing it at that age.

    5. Drill with a 3/4" Forstner bit and inlay a new penny. I think this would excite them and make it a little more special than just a board. Plus the supplies are cheap. Pros: it gets them using the drill press, teach them about drilling a blind hole, makes some sawdust (I actually think this is a big deal), relatively safe with supervision. Cons: might take too much time, I'd need help managing the rest of the den while one boy uses the drill press.

    6. Inlay a strip of walnut or other contrasting wood. I'd have to route the inlay, I'm not giving a router to a kid. Doing it on site would be noisy and messy, but I could let them decide where to put the strip, which would give them a little say in how it looks and kind of individualize them. I could pretty easily rip inlay strips ahead of time to a known thickness and then set up the router to get use real close to minimize the sanding needed. By doing a stock bit width like 3/4" or 1/2" I'd make it pretty easy. Pros: it would add a lot to the project, and give them more hands-on, plus some design say-so. Cons: even if I bring the M12V it's likely to be loud.

    6a. I could pre-route the board banks so they just had to glue in the inlay and sand. We'd have to trim up, but a hand saw would be fine there I think. Pros: I could make sure there was no wacky grain mismatches. Cons: they probably will all look pretty similar.

    I did a project like this as a kid. We had crudely crosscut foot-long pine 1x12 cutoffs (that were cupped like nobody's business) and we sanded them silly and rubbed olive oil in before screwing rubber feet to the bottom.

    Trivia that may help: we meet for an hour every two weeks; we meet in a church so noise and mess are concerns (but I can handle the mess); I have loads of walnut scrap that can be put to good use for this; I own a jointer and planer; I do not own any hand planes; I do have a big set of Forstner bits; I don't mind doing necessary precision work in the shop ahead of time.

    I care a lot less about the boards coming out looking gorgeous and more about the kids having fun, staying safe, learning a few things and just possibly getting sawdust fever. Your suggestions are most appreciated.
    --Rob

    sigpic
  • gjat
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2005
    • 685
    • Valrico (Tampa), Florida.
    • BT3100

    #2
    What a great idea. I had a few thoughts based on helping my nephew on a few profects.

    You do want them to 'customize' their boards a little bit, and whether it's saw-dust or something else, it's a 'gotta'.

    You could have them add 4 feet to the corners. Set up a jig to align the holes in the corners. Set the DP table at a height with a stop that will let you keep the holes set. They can glue in feet that you have pre-cut. Use it as a lesson for shop/tool safety with set steps. 1 - clamp the piece, 2- put on goggles, 3 - check that everyone is far enough away. 4 - Move the drill bit down to make sure it's aligned. 5 - turn on dp. 6 -drill hole, 7- turn off machine and wait for it to stop. 8 -unclamp, re-align, repeat from step 1.

    To personalize, you could have them use a permanent marker to put initials and date after sanding and before sealing. Make sure the oil won't make it run too much. If you sand, sign, drill, and 1 coat on 1st night, you can space out what the kids are doing. You definitely need 1 other person to help supervise. A teen or another dad?

    Comment

    • LCHIEN
      Internet Fact Checker
      • Dec 2002
      • 21031
      • Katy, TX, USA.
      • BT3000 vintage 1999

      #3
      Hi, I was a cub scout co-den leader for a couple of years.
      IMHO it sounds like the project you have in mind is a little complex for cub scouts, because
      1) complex, it involves a lot of time, the other scouts will get bored while you work one-on-one with power tools
      2) a lot of pre-work goes into it so the finished project is not all theirs so much, ideally you'd like to have a project that they did a high percentage of work on.

      What we did (over two years):
      1) make those triangle peg games (like at Cracker Barrel restaurant)
      http://shop.crackerbarrel.com/online...d=4&sku=606154
      simple wood triangle, bought golf tees for pegs, set up drill press
      The triangles can be made with a single table saw or miter saw crosscut (individual attention), the drill press is simple and relatively safe with a guide jig premade and depth stops set. Turns out the holes are all equidistant from the edges so a DP fence helps line it up easily. Use a template to set dimples in the workpiece, and let them use the edge guide to drill the holes, they can usually do this unsupervised after a few holes and take ten minnutes or less.

      If you want more sophistication, you can miter or chamfer the top edge and finish the thing.

      2) For Xmas, we made a small mitered frame, rabetted a groove and installed a ceramic tile and stenciled an xmas tree. Good as a hot plate.

      3) We also at one point made a cactus key stand
      Took a 1/4" plywood and boys used the scroll saw to cut out this cactus shape (with guidance)
      Premade some stands with a 1/4" groove down a 1x2 and crosscut those into blocks. Had the boys screw some cup hooks into the cactus and paint them dark green with some white vertical stripes.

      4) And we made some stands for the Pine Derby cars - just a dowel and some precut ply wood.

      I think the smaller, simpler, projects are best suited for these guys, they're only 10-11-12 YO or so. Try to keep the kid content high and the parent content low.
      Last edited by LCHIEN; 10-30-2006, 12:49 PM.
      Loring in Katy, TX USA
      If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
      BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

      Comment

      • linear
        Senior Member
        • May 2004
        • 612
        • DeSoto, KS, USA.
        • Ryobi BT3100

        #4
        As I recall, the guidelines specify that the boys can't use power tools, but hand tools are ok. And even if that's not so, my den is 8-year-olds, so I still probably want to avoid power tools if possible.

        As far as complexity, I may not have been clear that I wanted to pick one enhancement out of that list (or another one suggested here), not do them all. I know all too well that it's like herding cats.

        So the basic project can be boiled down to "sand and seal a board," but I was hoping to make it a little more memorable for the guys.

        Drill press-based suggestions will probably win out, because a) I can set mine up easily at the meeting, b) it's quiet, and c) not terribly dangerous. So maybe I ought to restate the original question as "help me find a way to use a drill press to make this project more fun."

        Projects suggested in the manual are usually nailed together. I'm not too keen on that.

        Should it be a given that the item needs to be completed in one night?
        --Rob

        sigpic

        Comment

        • LCHIEN
          Internet Fact Checker
          • Dec 2002
          • 21031
          • Katy, TX, USA.
          • BT3000 vintage 1999

          #5
          I think the peg game was ideal.
          Leader:
          Buy the pegs (golf tees). precut the triangles.
          Make a template.
          Boys:
          Mark and drill the holes,
          Finish (optional)

          They can play with it (educational and keeps 'em busy while the others are working) so they appreciate it more. And they did a high percentage of the work (fifteen small dia. holes - forstners are probably much more dangerous).



          Loring in Katy, TX USA
          If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
          BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

          Comment

          • cabinetman
            Gone but not Forgotten RIP
            • Jun 2006
            • 15216
            • So. Florida
            • Delta

            #6
            I'm thinking like the triangle game, you could make Tic-Tac-Doe boards, maybe like 6". The kids could sand the pre-profiled blanks, and the night for drilling for using golf tees, they would all be occupied at the same time. They could be shown how to measure and mark, and layout a hole pattern. To make the lines, a ballpoint pen might not run.Then, re-sanding to clean out holes, or mount countersink chamfer bit, for them to use. OR, cut dowel rod like 3/4" in two different species, light and dark, in 3/4" segments for the pieces, and let them sand those too. Then you have no holes to drill. Now that WILL keep them busy. Don't know what's in the budget. Maybe a shellac finnish would work, for fast drying.They could also sign their name on top or on the edge. This type of game keeps two kids busy, even kids my age.



            "I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"
            Last edited by cabinetman; 11-01-2006, 04:31 AM.

            Comment

            • DaveStL
              Established Member
              • Jan 2006
              • 100
              • St Louis, MO, USA.
              • Jet 10: Xacta RT

              #7
              Tools for Cub Scouts

              I was a den leader from Tigers (1st grade) through Webelos (5th grade). We did a couple of wood projects. One year we made tool boxes (tray type); another project was small cedar birdhouses. We precut the pieces, and the boys did all the drilling, assembly, sanding, and finishing. It worked out pretty well. Took two meetings to complete a project. Only power tools they used were cordless drills.

              We also had the den over to my house every year for a Pinewood Derby workshop. A parent was required for each boy. The boys used the drill press, scroll saw, and belt sander, always with an adult; the adults also used a Dremel. Our pack has always done a similar workshop, with the idea that any Cub and his parent can shape the car and drill the axle holes in that one Saturday morning, and then just have to weight, finish, and align the car. It's a great help for the mechaically challenged parents, and is very popular. When I got into it they had a band saw and a table-mounted router with jig for the parents to use, but a couple of us convinced the group that this was an accident waiting to happen. The only injury we had was the year we went to coping saws instead of powered saws-- a dad turned his head to talk to someone and cut his finger. The next year we went to scroll saws and never had a problem since.

              Dave

              Comment

              • Jeffrey Schronce
                Veteran Member
                • Nov 2005
                • 3822
                • York, PA, USA.
                • 22124

                #8
                I like the penny idea. Maybe have the kids choose a penny that has a date that corresponds to their DOB.

                The pine wood derby car stands are pretty cool as well.

                Comment

                • JimD
                  Veteran Member
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 4187
                  • Lexington, SC.

                  #9
                  A simple way to add some feet and let them do something would be to get some wooden plugs for holes, like 3/8 diameter, that are made to stand proud of the surface. You can get them in different spieces so you could have maple and walnut etc.. Alternately, if you have a plug cutter you could cut some but then the depth of drilling so that they will stand proud becomes more important. With the pre-made ones I am thinking of, the top is larger diameter so the hole depth is relatively unimportant.

                  This is not a job for an 8 year old but I use a flush trimming saw to cut things off flush before I sand. If you want to let them put pegs or plugs into the surface as decorations, I would recruit another adult to saw it flush or belt sand it flush and let the kids do the finish sanding.

                  Jim

                  Comment

                  • jdschulteis
                    Established Member
                    • Mar 2003
                    • 139
                    • Muskego, Wisconsin, USA.
                    • Ryobi BT3100

                    #10
                    Originally posted by linear
                    [. . .]
                    I care a lot less about the boards coming out looking gorgeous and more about the kids having fun, staying safe, learning a few things and just possibly getting sawdust fever. Your suggestions are most appreciated.

                    You've definitely got the most important aspects of the project clearly stated right there

                    BSA guidelines http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/re...260/chart.html
                    recommend that scouts be at least Webelos before using power tools. That said, a drill press seems fairly safe, especially if you line them up and get all the drilling done in a short time span, then lock out the DP. Or, you could have the boys drill the holes using a brace.

                    A variety of plug diameters in contrasting wood species would let the scouts use their creativity to individualize the cutting boards.

                    If you want to do the inlay strips, maybe have a design session in one meeting and construction the next. You then have individuality but still could rout grooves for the inlays ahead of time. At the construction meeting, maybe the boys could try squaring the ends of the routed grooves with a chisel? Then, glue the strips in place (maybe use 5 minute epoxy?), sand, and finish. Perhaps a bit ambitious but it might turn out much nicer than the typical nailed-together bird house.
                    Jerry

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