Touching up/fixing Voids

[Tarheel]

I have been looking for details regarding an age old trick of mixing sawdust and glue? into a thick paste for filling in small tearouts that seem inevitable when working with read oak and cherry.

My most recent issue is that I cut some halfblind dovetails and the fit is really great except for a couple of visible voids (due to tearout) in a couple of the pins. Rather than scrap the entire side of the box (about 12"x24"), I though that I would try to make some of this "homemade putty" to mask the problem. - Better than using wood putty that won't take a finish worth a flip!

Can anyone tell me what the "formula" is? I am pretty sure that it was some of the sawdust generated from the piece I am working on mixed with some sort of glue, but not sure what type a consistency so that I will still be ok using a stain or shellac without it popping out at me when done.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Wayne

[Ken Massingale]

Wayne,
In my experience with this any glue is not going to take stain and look exactly like the wood. The stain will not penetrate into the glue.
However, it will look better than the voids from tearout, I guess. As for the mixture, use as little glue as possible to bind the sawdust together, the less glue the better the stain will penetrate. I now use thin or medium CA (superglue) instead of yellow wood glue for 'most' of these fixes.
Good luck
ken

[cgallery]

When I've tried to mix glue with sawdust for the purpose of filling, I've found that too much glue is required to get a reasonable consistency. And with that amount of glue, getting the finish to penetrate the dust is nearly imposible.

It may be better to mix very fine sawdust with your finishing product and use that as a filler. Or, to use a post-finishing product (like the ones that have to be melted into the wood).

-Phil

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Most glues are not going to accept stain well (actually not at all but the wood content will).

I believe there are two good options here :

1) Don't stain the project. If you are working with Red Oak it is ready to bring forth a wonderful color by simply applying a thin coat of Garnet (or Amber if you don't have access to garnet) shellac. A couple coats of poly in the sheen of choice and your done. Going this way you can take the red oak dust from your sander, mix it with some cut shellac and fill. Let that dry for an hour then shellac the whole project.

2) A lot of paint stores (Gliddeon, Sherwin, etc) carry Zar products. Their Zar Red Oak wood filler is inexpensive, a great match and accepts stain decently.

Unless you are trying to match other pieces in the room there is no need for stain with Red Oak. Try straight poly and a scape and see how it looks. Try a wash coat of different colors of shellac, then poly and see how that looks. First these methods are easier than dealing with stains or dyes, second they allow the wood to show its true beauty.

[Tarheel]

Thanks a lot for all of tips, guys!

I actually plan on using 4-6 coats of Waterlox over the red oak as a finish coat - no stain this time. I may try mixing some of the oak sawdust with a thimbleful of Waterlox to see if that will ease some of my pain. Don't really see why that shouldn't work ok! (I also like the idea of using CA glue as an alternative.)

Great ideas!

Thanks,

Wayne

[jspelbring]

Crazy thought

Total noob here, but I just had an insane thought. What if you actually added a little bit of the stain that you are going to use to your sawdust/glue mix? Would that make the glue not bind? Dunno - too much coffee might be messing with the old brainpan.

-Jon

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Total noob here, but I just had an insane thought. What if you actually added a little bit of the stain that you are going to use to your sawdust/glue mix? Would that make the glue not bind? Dunno - too much coffee might be messing with the old brainpan.

-Jon

This would work to some degree. Only problem is that the dried stain would be highly soluble when other coats of stain are applied. Also, it would be incredibly dark unless the stain was thinned with a clear thinner. Dust is going to take stain much more readily than face grain, similar to the way end grain is so absorptive.
Also I think OP changed the story a bit and said he was not going to stain only Waterlox. I think mixing dust with Waterlox, filling voids, letting it dry, sanding smooth, then finishing with Waterlox would be a great choice.

[JR]

Tarheel, I have couple of suggestions:

1. If the void is big enough, you could stuff a wedge of matching wood into it. It will take stain, obviously, and will not be too notideable.

2. I had a similar problem a few months ago and tried several glue combinations. Superglue is very runny, and works best for very small voids. Epoxy also works well, but for larger voids only - it can be a bit goopy. Yellow glue didn't do much for me, but would tend to work on voids that are medium sized.

Don't let the glue/sawdust mix go beyond the perimeter of the void, but be sure to build up the glue/sawdust mix, then sand down to surface level.

It will turn out better than you thought it would, especially since you're not using stain.

JR

[atgcpaul]

I suppose this really depends on how bad your tearout is and if it's in the pin
or the tail. If it's the pin, then you're talking end grain and in the tail, it's face
grain. If you really want a well-disguised fix, glue and jam in the appropriate
endgrain or facegrain sliver into the gap. Handplane down the piece that's
sticking up and if you didn't slather too much glue on, your patch will be almost
invisible.

Paul

[cgallery]

I suppose this really depends on how bad your tearout is and if it's in the pin
or the tail. If it's the pin, then you're talking end grain and in the tail, it's face
grain. If you really want a well-disguised fix, glue and jam in the appropriate
endgrain or facegrain sliver into the gap. Handplane down the piece that's
sticking up and if you didn't slather too much glue on, your patch will be almost
invisible.

Paul

And if anyone starts examining it that closely, start KICKING them!

[atgcpaul]

And if anyone starts examining it that closely, start KICKING them!

I am one of those people that likes to examine WWing joints up close and
personal. Every little goof I've made (and will make) stand out at me like a
sore thumb no matter how well I may have disguised it from others--even years
later. Maybe Shakespeare was speaking to me when he wrote "Out darn spot".

I'll be sure to wear my shin guards if I ever visit any of you.

[Tarheel]

atgcpaul Quote:
Originally Posted by cgallery
And if anyone starts examining it that closely, start KICKING them!


I am one of those people that likes to examine WWing joints up close and
personal. Every little goof I've made (and will make) stand out at me like a
sore thumb no matter how well I may have disguised it from others--even years
later. Maybe Shakespeare was speaking to me when he wrote "Out darn spot".

I'll be sure to wear my shin guards if I ever visit any of you.

These voids are pretty small. But,,,,,too big to call it "design intent"!

You guys have really left me with a number of solutions and I really appreciate the responces!

Wayne

[wardprobst]

I'd probably use epoxy putty. You can get it in a number of colors. Then just accept that all mistakes are more obvious to you than the casual observer.
DP

[cabinetman]

I usually try to craft wood pieces to fit the void. Second choice is to discover (through trial and error on samples) a wood fill/putty that is very close. If I have to do the wood dust/glue combo, I use a white glue, like Elmers, and dilute it with water quite a bit, and then mix in the dust. The problem with the glue/wood dust mix is usually you need too much glue to get the shebang into a state of suspension. The water dilution helps with the mix and creates a lesser glue to wood dust ratio.



"I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[Tom Slick]

titebond III seems to work very well for filling small voids/seams. rub some TB III into the void the sand the area, the sawdust stick into the glue. rubbing some sawdust into the void then applying superglue also works well. of course neither of these work if you are going to stain the area.